Outlander 1000 and Slip On... Do I Need A Programmer/Tuner???

[WiNdGaDe800]

Quote: Originally Posted by WaterBoy

Well I ordered the Two Brothers slip on today. I'm going to try it with out a programmer while monitoring the plugs closely. My dealer told me I can run a slip without a tuner but if I do install a programmer the warranty is void… So I hope it works out!

Great slip-on choice! Sound exactly like Get Torqed's slip-on.

As for monitoring your plugs... You can do this to an extent but you can't do plug chops or anything. When everyone is saying it's running lean, well it's basically only lean at lower throttle positions and lower RPM's, or "cruising range", this is to yes pass emissions but for fuel efficiency is a big reason. You will probably be just fine with no tuner, but if you go that route than I'd suggest getting a fan controller because your engine will now run hotter and you need to get it cooled down somehow, plus this will make your bike a bit richer in the cruising range as your ECM will give your engine a bit more fuel and timing.

As for a tuner voiding your warranty, it only takes a few min to remove it, they would never know you had it, so don't worry about that, you can have one if you want.

[GOFORIT]

You sure dealer would not know a controller had been on the bike?

[WiNdGaDe800]

I don't think BUDS has any way of knowing, your ECM doesn't know you have it...

Depending on the tuner there may need to be a PIN sized hole in your TPS wire, but that's it and nobody would ever see that unless they got a magnifying glass out and looked hard.

[hedge]

I haven't asked my dealer but it seems odd they would care if it had a tuner. It seems to me the tuner makes it safer, less lean so it makes no sense why that would void the warranty.

I guess I'll have to ask on the sly, I'm mounting the full system so I doubt I'm going to swap it back to stock to take it in but removing the tuner would be trivial.

Waterboy: where in Alberta are you?

[Revicm]

Here is a little reading from the Tunemonster manual on why checking plugs is useless on a EFI machine…

Reading spark plugs: Plug reading is meaningless for fuel tuning or state of mixture. It
worked well, back in the day of leaded fuel and carburetors. Unleaded fuel leaves black soot,
and is a normal combustion by-product. (= doesn't mean a rich mixture if spark plug is black)
A carburetor has 3 circuits, and using 3 plug chops (new plugs, not looking at a used plug and
shutting of engine at a throttle position)- you could check the condition at each circuit. (pilot
jet, needle jet & main jet). But an efi engine has 144 or more cells. There is no way to check
the condition / mixture at all throttle positions and rpms by looking at a spark plug. Let alone a
used spark plug that has been ran for several hours. What cell would you be checking?
If you had a rich idle and let it idle before shutting off - it could hide very lean conditions. Or
vice versa. Or gas with a lot of additives will show black plugs. Even a wrong plug heat range
will give false information. (doesn't burn off or gets too hot). You could have a rich cruise area
of the table and a dead lean wot part. If you spend 80% of your riding cruising or in slow
terrain - you will never see the damage that is going to happen when you open it up down a
road sometime. You could have a rich warmup table/ acceleration pump and lean running fuel
table - which one is the plug going to read???
Don't even bother trying to read spark plugs for mixture. The only valuable information you
can get from plugs, is signs of oil in the chamber or that detonation has occurred. The only
way to tune or monitor an EFI engine is with wideband exhaust sensors, exhaust
temperature sensors or high dollar pressure equipment.
Tune Monster

[Wheelie.Man]

Quote: Originally Posted by WiNdGaDe800

Quote: Originally Posted by WaterBoy

Well I ordered the Two Brothers slip on today. I'm going to try it with out a programmer while monitoring the plugs closely. My dealer told me I can run a slip without a tuner but if I do install a programmer the warranty is void… So I hope it works out!

Great slip-on choice! Sound exactly like Get Torqed's slip-on.

As for monitoring your plugs... You can do this to an extent but you can't do plug chops or anything. When everyone is saying it's running lean, well it's basically only lean at lower throttle positions and lower RPM's, or "cruising range", this is to yes pass emissions but for fuel efficiency is a big reason. You will probably be just fine with no tuner, but if you go that route than I'd suggest getting a fan controller because your engine will now run hotter and you need to get it cooled down somehow, plus this will make your bike a bit richer in the cruising range as your ECM will give your engine a bit more fuel and timing.

As for a tuner voiding your warranty, it only takes a few min to remove it, they would never know you had it, so don't worry about that, you can have one if you want.

My dealer said if you put a programer on it it throws a trouble code that BRP can see when they plug it in for work.

[spikester]

Quote: Originally Posted by Revicm

Here is a little reading from the Tunemonster manual on why checking plugs is useless on a EFI machine…

Reading spark plugs: Plug reading is meaningless for fuel tuning or state of mixture. It
worked well, back in the day of leaded fuel and carburetors. Unleaded fuel leaves black soot,
and is a normal combustion by-product. (= doesn't mean a rich mixture if spark plug is black)
A carburetor has 3 circuits, and using 3 plug chops (new plugs, not looking at a used plug and
shutting of engine at a throttle position)- you could check the condition at each circuit. (pilot
jet, needle jet & main jet). But an efi engine has 144 or more cells. There is no way to check
the condition / mixture at all throttle positions and rpms by looking at a spark plug. Let alone a
used spark plug that has been ran for several hours. What cell would you be checking?
If you had a rich idle and let it idle before shutting off - it could hide very lean conditions. Or
vice versa. Or gas with a lot of additives will show black plugs. Even a wrong plug heat range
will give false information. (doesn't burn off or gets too hot). You could have a rich cruise area
of the table and a dead lean wot part. If you spend 80% of your riding cruising or in slow
terrain - you will never see the damage that is going to happen when you open it up down a
road sometime. You could have a rich warmup table/ acceleration pump and lean running fuel
table - which one is the plug going to read???
Don't even bother trying to read spark plugs for mixture. The only valuable information you
can get from plugs, is signs of oil in the chamber or that detonation has occurred. The only
way to tune or monitor an EFI engine is with wideband exhaust sensors, exhaust
temperature sensors or high dollar pressure equipment.
Tune Monster

Wow glad to have learned that, now i know not to ever go threw that process for that reason again.

The tuner won't void the warranty, especially if honda doesn't care im sure can am doesn't. Your bike will run hotter, so i would just bite the bullett, buy you a power commander, and get that thing wide banded. You'll be happy with the results, and you will also be at piece of mind knowing your bike is running perfectly.

[Deadman]

Don't jump to conclusions on Can-am not caring about mods.......I've had bone stock snowmobiles that BRP would not cover under warranty for all kinds of BS reasons they came up with. It really annoyed me. Dealer finally got them to cover the items, but BRP fought the dealer all the way thru the process!
Just be careful on what they know about the mods.....

[spikester]

Hmm guess its the dealer mostly, I was told by the shop manager that he would rather see snorkels on the bike than not. He said it for security, and when they open up the motor from being burnt up and their is no tell tell sign (dirt mud ect) in the block than its covered but if it does have that shit in it, its not. He knows i have a programmer, full exhaust, tuned, with 31s on it. NO PROB! already had warranty work done on it. But like i said i guess every dealer is different.

[Deadman]

Mine was a blown engine (snowmobile) tho, so they were alot more excited than if it was a smaller issue.