I read one or two with defenders, but not outlander.Very strange issue that has been going on for about 3 years. My 06 oulander 800 runs great all summer but once winter rolls around its very hard to get it to stay running until its warm. Summer you hit starter and it fires and is ready to go. Winter it fires right up revs up a bit then lowers the idle until it stalls. If I hold a steady throttle to keep it running the IAC closes until it stalls. I have to keep holding the throttle reving it up to keep it running and after it warms up its fine and good to go. Runs like a dream after as long as I dont let the engine cool down to much between uses.
I sometimes disconnect the IAC and it kinda stays running. If its -15 same thing but the colder it gets it starts blowing brown smoke and cylinders start to cut out. Seems to be really overfueling but is fine once I get it warmed up.
I finally got fed up this year and took to a dealer to fix it as I use it to plow snow. They tried IAC and map sensor and still wont easy start in the cold. Dealer didnt charge me for those parts which is great. Now they are thinking ECU or maybe throttle body. These I will have to pay for since they dont have them at $1000 and $1500 each.
The labour time is starting to stack up. Anyone had this issue?
Thanks
06 800 wont stay running below +10c
Very strange issue that has been going on for about 3 years. My 06 oulander 800 runs great all summer but once winter rolls around its very hard to get it to stay running until its warm. Summer you hit starter and it fires and is ready to go. Winter it fires right up revs up a bit then lowers the idle until it stalls. If I hold a steady throttle to keep it running the IAC closes until it stalls. I have to keep holding the throttle reving it up to keep it running and after it warms up its fine and good to go. Runs like a dream after as long as I dont let the engine cool down to much between uses.
I sometimes disconnect the IAC and it kinda stays running. If its -15 same thing but the colder it gets it starts blowing brown smoke and cylinders start to cut out. Seems to be really overfueling but is fine once I get it warmed up.
I finally got fed up this year and took to a dealer to fix it as I use it to plow snow. They tried IAC and map sensor and still wont easy start in the cold. Dealer didnt charge me for those parts which is great. Now they are thinking ECU or maybe throttle body. These I will have to pay for since they dont have them at $1000 and $1500 each.
The labour time is starting to stack up. Anyone had this issue?
Thanks
I sometimes disconnect the IAC and it kinda stays running. If its -15 same thing but the colder it gets it starts blowing brown smoke and cylinders start to cut out. Seems to be really overfueling but is fine once I get it warmed up.
I finally got fed up this year and took to a dealer to fix it as I use it to plow snow. They tried IAC and map sensor and still wont easy start in the cold. Dealer didnt charge me for those parts which is great. Now they are thinking ECU or maybe throttle body. These I will have to pay for since they dont have them at $1000 and $1500 each.
The labour time is starting to stack up. Anyone had this issue?
Thanks
1 - 20 of 47 Posts
I read one or two with defenders, but not outlander.
Its definitly a strange issue and very temp dependant. Ive had the bike over 15 years and its been bad the last 3 or 4 winters. I have scoured online forums for years and have not seen it mentioned before. Will probably look for a used ecu. Hate getting unknown parts to diagnose but with how rare and strange this issue is im pretty confident I wont pick one up with the same issue.I read one or two with defenders, but not outlander.
I do not have a injected outlander but from motorcycle fuel injection systems I would have them look at the machine with a CO tester in the tailpipe and software reading sensors. The machine must be lean (cold needs more fuel) and when cold is not compensating. You could have a bad temperature sensor reading the wrong temperature so the machine does not get extra fuel in the cold or a cold start map is not working as it should to warm the machine.
A IAC works with a controlled air leak so if the IAC does not open the air ports idle would be low and not run right at warm up. This may be tied to the IAC not opening and the warm up map adding fuel. You would have both a low idle as well as rich condition in this case. A rich CO at start / warm up may indicate this, lean CO would be something not adding enough fuel for start up so a CO reading would help the diagnosis.
A IAC works with a controlled air leak so if the IAC does not open the air ports idle would be low and not run right at warm up. This may be tied to the IAC not opening and the warm up map adding fuel. You would have both a low idle as well as rich condition in this case. A rich CO at start / warm up may indicate this, lean CO would be something not adding enough fuel for start up so a CO reading would help the diagnosis.
Interesting. When it starts the IAC appears to be open and it is then commanding it to close. As a bandaid I used to disconnect the IAC when it idled down a bit but not enough to let it stall but below -15 it sounds like it is actually flooding the engine with fuel and this didnt work. Smells like it at least plus cylinders pop in and out. I have been thinking about a bad temp reading but im assuming the air temp is read through the same module as the MAP? This was replaced and the bike put back outside to chill and test. Im not aware if the computer uses the engine coolant temp in its calcs. Maybe that is the real issue and why it goes away once I rev it up for 5 minutes.I do not have a injected outlander but from motorcycle fuel injection systems I would have them look at the machine with a CO tester in the tailpipe and software reading sensors. The machine must be lean (cold needs more fuel) and when cold is not compensating. You could have a bad temperature sensor reading the wrong temperature so the machine does not get extra fuel in the cold or a cold start map is not working as it should to warm the machine.
A IAC works with a controlled air leak so if the IAC does not open the air ports idle would be low and not run right at warm up. This may be tied to the IAC not opening and the warm up map adding fuel. You would have both a low idle as well as rich condition in this case. A rich CO at start / warm up may indicate this, lean CO would be something not adding enough fuel for start up so a CO reading would help the diagnosis.
Most fuel injection I work with the sensors that trim fuel are ...
Air temperature.
engine temperature
air pressure.
Cold start is done with engine revolutions no matter engine or air temp.
Map settings usually are not connected to temperature but again this is motorcycle not atv experience.
The IAC I deal with use electric heater to open a air port and control the idle. If the port does not open (or close) then fueling would be different as well.
Look at a parts fiche and see what sensors you can find , this could help determine what sensors you need to worry about. Some like air pressure and air temp some times are built into either a dash or ecu itself.
Air temperature.
engine temperature
air pressure.
Cold start is done with engine revolutions no matter engine or air temp.
Map settings usually are not connected to temperature but again this is motorcycle not atv experience.
The IAC I deal with use electric heater to open a air port and control the idle. If the port does not open (or close) then fueling would be different as well.
Look at a parts fiche and see what sensors you can find , this could help determine what sensors you need to worry about. Some like air pressure and air temp some times are built into either a dash or ecu itself.
Thanks for some ideas. You have me thinking in a different way now.Most fuel injection I work with the sensors that trim fuel are ...
Air temperature.
engine temperature
air pressure.
Cold start is done with engine revolutions no matter engine or air temp.
Map settings usually are not connected to temperature but again this is motorcycle not atv experience.
The IAC I deal with use electric heater to open a air port and control the idle. If the port does not open (or close) then fueling would be different as well.
Look at a parts fiche and see what sensors you can find , this could help determine what sensors you need to worry about. Some like air pressure and air temp some times are built into either a dash or ecu itself.
Sensors I am seeing is the map although partzilla shows it as pressure/temp sensor and throttle position sensor. This IAC uses a small electric motor to open/close. I cant see it being the throttle body as one suggestion was as its not something that can change with temp. I am now thinking it cant be MAP/intake air temp as that doesnt change as the engine warms. The air temp is a constant and it runs great when its warm out. Possibly could be an issue in the ECU as it may be having the cold start issue until the engine temp comes up and then it switches to a warm loop (not sure the term, open/closed loop is usually based around o2 sensor engines). I wish I knew more about the logic in the ECU or what the BUDS system will show as the engine warms up. My mustang tuner I can see every sensor and whether I am in open/closed loop. Maybe its not reading the engine RPM properly and thats why its idling down to far. My guage pod failed many years ago so I cant confirm.
I may need to discuss some ideas with the mechanic working on it. Im going to dive deeper into the service manual I have.
What fuel do you use and how is it stored? Does it ever sit for extended time period? It sounds like bad fuel.
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I have used standard regular fuel for the last 15 years. With all the fuel burners here fuel cans never last more than a few weeks. The bike never really sits around, I use if a few time a week. The issue starts every winter and goes away every summer. Once I get through the painfull cold start the bike performs as well as it has ever.What fuel do you use and how is it stored? Does it ever sit for extended time period? It sounds like bad fuel.
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Yup seen plenty of efi machines run perfectly on bad fuel once they are warmed up and in the summer. But once it gets below 35-40 they barely start if shut off for too long and barely or wont start in the mornings. This is especially prevalent in atvs and sxs.
Just wanted to rule it out. Lots of people around here storeit ina 5 gallon jug and it sits around for a few months, or they have a tank that they only fill their atv/sxs up with and it gets old.
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Just wanted to rule it out. Lots of people around here storeit ina 5 gallon jug and it sits around for a few months, or they have a tank that they only fill their atv/sxs up with and it gets old.
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Have you checked compression and chain guides?
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Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
Have you checked compression and chain guides?
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Yup seen plenty of efi machines run perfectly on bad fuel once they are warmed up and in the summer. But once it gets below 35-40 they barely start if shut off for too long and barely or wont start in the mornings. This is especially prevalent in atvs and sxs.
Just wanted to rule it out. Lots of people around here storeit ina 5 gallon jug and it sits around for a few months, or they have a tank that they only fill their atv/sxs up with and it gets old.
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Fair enough. I swear gasoline wont keep good for a few months anymore, if that long. Im try to rule out everything. I have also put a new fuel pump and regulator in since I was having an issue with low fuel pressure the year before last.
Compression is good. I cant remember what it is as I checked it last year when I was really trying to figure this out. Leakdown test was good. The engine is about 5 years old. I rebuilt it when the chain guide plastic plugged the oil strainer and took out the engine...after I put new guides in. Must have been some reminants of the old ones floating around. Bored/crank/rods/complete full rebuild. MAF is clean. Polished the throttle body clean multiple times. Runs like a new bike in the summer and once warmed up.
This fall when it acted up again I just put my head down and hauled it to a dealer to look at.
You might check fuel pressure just to be safe. I know seems redundant but if it is leaking pressure off it will cause your issue.
Yup I was replacing a wiring harness on a grizz 450 and there was not harness in the US. Had to order from Japan and wait 3 months. This machine ran perfectly till the harness got burned up from shorting out and melting everything. When I finally installed the harness the carb was partially gummed up from sitting in a heated shop for most of 3 months.
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Yup I was replacing a wiring harness on a grizz 450 and there was not harness in the US. Had to order from Japan and wait 3 months. This machine ran perfectly till the harness got burned up from shorting out and melting everything. When I finally installed the harness the carb was partially gummed up from sitting in a heated shop for most of 3 months.
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Fuel pressure is bang on and it does hold. I actually have a permanent guage plumbed under the seat from whe I was having issues before.You might check fuel pressure just to be safe. I know seems redundant but if it is leaking pressure off it will cause your issue.
Yup I was replacing a wiring harness on a grizz 450 and there was not harness in the US. Had to order from Japan and wait 3 months. This machine ran perfectly till the harness got burned up from shorting out and melting everything. When I finally installed the harness the carb was partially gummed up from sitting in a heated shop for most of 3 months.
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Well sure seems you have your bases covered. Just seems odd it runs ok in the summer.
Do you know your octane rating of the fuel you get? Maybe try a couple of tanks of fresh non ethanol 87 fuel from a high volume gas station. Doesn't hurt to try and better than an ecu.
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Do you know your octane rating of the fuel you get? Maybe try a couple of tanks of fresh non ethanol 87 fuel from a high volume gas station. Doesn't hurt to try and better than an ecu.
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Ya I have had many years of diagnosing this machine. I now know it all pretty good. I think its 87 or 89 octane that I have always been putting through it. I may give a differnt fuel a test. It is very odd the seasonal difference and it is night and day at about +10C or less. My garage is kept just above freezing in the winter and it will act up when I store it in there also. Parked in the warm shop its fine.Well sure seems you have your bases covered. Just seems odd it runs ok in the summer.
Do you know your octane rating of the fuel you get? Maybe try a couple of tanks of fresh non ethanol 87 fuel from a high volume gas station. Doesn't hurt to try and better than an ecu.
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Welcome to the site, boy that is a head-scratcher there.
All good thoughts and comments above, and Rob you're sure doing everything you can
So the dealer swapping the IAC and MAF/T didn't help, tends to rule those out. Good fuel pressure tends to rule that out. Does the coolant temp sensor read/work properly? Temp climbs as expected, fan works as expected? This is super easy to ask, but every idea helps, I think- when's the last time you changed the plugs? Does the cluster ever pop the engine light or give you any weird messages while it's struggling to stay running?
All good thoughts and comments above, and Rob you're sure doing everything you can
So the dealer swapping the IAC and MAF/T didn't help, tends to rule those out. Good fuel pressure tends to rule that out. Does the coolant temp sensor read/work properly? Temp climbs as expected, fan works as expected? This is super easy to ask, but every idea helps, I think- when's the last time you changed the plugs? Does the cluster ever pop the engine light or give you any weird messages while it's struggling to stay running?
Often times sensors can be tricked into richening a mixture by adding resistance, you might see if anyone out there has a simple inline dongle to trick the ecu into adding a bit more fuel. I see machines that are less efficient often need fuel added so there may be something on your particular engine (port shape, finish, cam timing, ignition timing) that is requiring more fuel. Did it have this problem prior to the rebuild?
Do you have software to read sensors and any way to know what they should read?
if they all check out I would then find a way to add fuel to the map. any mods to the exhaust or airbox?
Do you have software to read sensors and any way to know what they should read?
if they all check out I would then find a way to add fuel to the map. any mods to the exhaust or airbox?
I am not sure on the coolant temp really. I didnt even think about that one. I know the fan goes on/off but at what temp I cant say. I will ask the dealer this question. Plugs have been replaced not to long ago. No check engine light when this happens or messages. My cluster is a bit messed up but I can see warnings. One strange occurrence that does come to mind recently is I was expecting the bike to be a pain to get started as normal but it started right up and stayed at a higher idle. If I touched the throttle it would bog down. It stayed revving maybe 2000rpm for a few minutes while I checked things out. Check engine light came on. Eventually I shut it down and restarted it and then it went back to the low idle like nothing happened. Engine light was off. This was a one off occurrence.Welcome to the site, boy that is a head-scratcher there.
All good thoughts and comments above, and Rob you're sure doing everything you can
So the dealer swapping the IAC and MAF/T didn't help, tends to rule those out. Good fuel pressure tends to rule that out. Does the coolant temp sensor read/work properly? Temp climbs as expected, fan works as expected? This is super easy to ask, but every idea helps, I think- when's the last time you changed the plugs? Does the cluster ever pop the engine light or give you any weird messages while it's struggling to stay running?
I didnt have the issue prior to the rebuild. It was a year or so later. That winter was fine. I wish I could get my hands on the software to read the sensors. Dealers have it. No mods at all. The rebuild was a complete stock rebuild just bored one over.Often times sensors can be tricked into richening a mixture by adding resistance, you might see if anyone out there has a simple inline dongle to trick the ecu into adding a bit more fuel. I see machines that are less efficient often need fuel added so there may be something on your particular engine (port shape, finish, cam timing, ignition timing) that is requiring more fuel. Did it have this problem prior to the rebuild?
Do you have software to read sensors and any way to know what they should read?
if they all check out I would then find a way to add fuel to the map. any mods to the exhaust or airbox?
1 - 20 of 47 Posts
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