Can-Am ATV Forum banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So, I am just wondering how necessary the 10 hr service really is. For those of you that do your own service work and have performed this service, how much debris have you actually seen in the oil? Has anyone taken the time to adjust the valves and actually needed to make changes?

My personal opinion is that this is a way to get you back into the dealer and allow the dealer to make some easy money for a service that isn't really necessary.

Before you start attacking me for bringing this up, let me give you a little history about myself. I have been turning wrenches for over 40 years and building engines for 38 as well as transmissions, differentials, etc. I am an ASE certified Master Tech and a maintenance supervisor at a fairly large state facility.

If a job is done clean, there is very little metal contamination. Break in wear on new differentials is usually negligible although some people like to change their rear axle oil on a new truck after 1000 miles, it is not required by the manufacturer. Magnetic drain plugs or magnets placed in the sump usually pick up most break in metals.

Some engine builders run a break in oil when running an engine on a dyno and then change the oil as soon as the dyno run is over, but I doubt that any manufacturers do this.

So, I have a brand new Outlander 800 Max dps 2013 model and I am debating when I will do my first service and how far I will go. I have shell rotella t6 on hand for when I will do the first engine oil change and I have one oem oil filter (last one I will buy) that cost about 15.00. I can buy K&N high flow oil filters for less than 5.00 each, so I won't be giving the dealer money on that.

When I was getting the overview from my dealer on my new ride, he told me about the service light coming on at 10 hrs and needing to bring it in to have it cleared and the initial service done. I told the manager that I had just purchased software at work that will allow me to access the computer on all the Can Ams, clear codes and program keys and you could have heard a pin drop.

I am usually over the top on needed maintenance, but I won't throw money away on unneeded things. If my oil is dirty, I will change it regardless of miles, but if it is still clean, it stays in service.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,227 Posts
Change all oils.... at least. Check all suspension bolts as they tend to need a snug after bouncing around.
Just did my valves, a couple were tight. Real pia tho..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
all i did on my 10 hr was change my engine and tranny oils. i clean my bike like crazy after each ride and check over everything. I talked to my mechanic about the valve check he said wait to do it around 25 or 50 hour mark. He said he as never heard or seen them needing to be adjusted at the 10 hour mark and most likely the dealer will not check it either but just say they did. Now call me crazy but i will only run the can am oils. In my bike that way there is no question of did i use the correct weights. My dealer sales the oil change kits for 50 bucks it comes with 3 qrts of oil new Oring filer and crush washers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
932 Posts
IMO there is a lot of hype. That is why price varies from dealer to dealer. I am a firm believer in changing oils after a break in period. Almost all oil breaks down and separates from sitting idle for prolonged periods and who really knows how many months the engine and bike sat in a crate.
One thing for sure is; you need to check things for leaks or loosening nuts.
You should be able to hear your valves if they are out of spec. I did hear a friends valves and when he checked, they were a little out of spec after a few thousand KM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
IMO there is a lot of hype. That is why price varies from dealer to dealer. I am a firm believer in changing oils after a break in period. Almost all oil breaks down and separates from sitting idle for prolonged periods and who really knows how many months the engine and bike sat in a crate.
One thing for sure is; you need to check things for leaks or loosening nuts.
You should be able to hear your valves if they are out of spec. I did hear a friends valves and when he checked, they were a little out of spec after a few thousand KM.

the engine would not have oil in it while in the crate...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,770 Posts
You can do the 10 hour service yourself as long as you keep the receipts, from what I have been told....One of the reasons, I took mine to the dealer is because I didn't want to do anything to void my warranty....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,240 Posts
My oil and filter looked like chrome after 3-4 hrs of hard riding. I'm not saying the oil was junk, But I am saying I'm glad I dumped that metal instead of circulating that thru the engine any more than necessary. The oil filter was actually shiny. I'll dig out my old cell phone and see If I can find a picture of it...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
932 Posts
IMO there is a lot of hype. That is why price varies from dealer to dealer. I am a firm believer in changing oils after a break in period. Almost all oil breaks down and separates from sitting idle for prolonged periods and who really knows how many months the engine and bike sat in a crate.
One thing for sure is; you need to check things for leaks or loosening nuts.
You should be able to hear your valves if they are out of spec. I did hear a friends valves and when he checked, they were a little out of spec after a few thousand KM.

the engine would not have oil in it while in the crate...
The engine is partially broken in at the factory so there better be oil in it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
570 Posts
IMO there is a lot of hype. That is why price varies from dealer to dealer. I am a firm believer in changing oils after a break in period. Almost all oil breaks down and separates from sitting idle for prolonged periods and who really knows how many months the engine and bike sat in a crate.
One thing for sure is; you need to check things for leaks or loosening nuts.
You should be able to hear your valves if they are out of spec. I did hear a friends valves and when he checked, they were a little out of spec after a few thousand KM.

the engine would not have oil in it while in the crate...
The engine is partially broken in at the factory so there better be oil in it.
Either way, it don't matter, engine oil doesn't have a shelf life, it doesn't matter if it's sitting in the bottom of a crank case or in a jug on the shelf. That's why I change my oil before I put something in storage instead of after storage. Used oil has acid in it, you don't want that oil in your engine during storage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
651 Posts
IMO there is a lot of hype. That is why price varies from dealer to dealer. I am a firm believer in changing oils after a break in period. Almost all oil breaks down and separates from sitting idle for prolonged periods and who really knows how many months the engine and bike sat in a crate.
One thing for sure is; you need to check things for leaks or loosening nuts.
You should be able to hear your valves if they are out of spec. I did hear a friends valves and when he checked, they were a little out of spec after a few thousand KM.

the engine would not have oil in it while in the crate...
BRP engines are shipped with break-in oil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
oil can separate and get old why else is there exp date on most name brand oil. I deal with bulk oil every day at work and old stock with separate in totes after 9 to 12 months. When we drain that tote it will leave a thick wax on the bottom , always check born on date :tools1:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
932 Posts
Kind of related; when I did my first oil change with my truck, I walked into the shop as they pulled the oil filter off; the tech showed me how much metal was free floating. He then showed me my plug that had lots metal stuck to the magnet. I am so glad I went in well before the first suggested oil change.
Do your first oil and fluid change at 10hrs. I bet most dealers don't take off the valve covers to check the valves, but listen to the sounds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
I changed the oil in mine at a little over the 10 hour mark. Both engine oil and the transmission oil had silver to it. The first change on power sports engines seems to be a critical one to do especially when oil and filters are cheap compared to engines. The biggest pita was getting the plug screwed back into the transmission, kept on dropping it and having to clean it before trying again.
After looking at all the room around the engine I will bring mine in to have the valves adjusted this spring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,240 Posts
The valves on mine were noticeably out of spec at 20-25 hrs. I would adjust them, but you decide when.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
Look at the color of my rear diff oil at 20 hrs. It's supposed to be green from BPR. I showed it to the dealer. They said it's normal. Looks pretty nasty if you ask me.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Sounds like results are all over the board. Most new cars and trucks do not have early oil change for break in. I have a new 2015 Duramax diesel at work and it still hasn't had it's first oil change at 5500 miles. It has 18% oil life left.

A friend of mine at work has an Outlander Max 1000 and when he did his 10 hr service all of the oils were crystal clear. Dealer told him they never adjust the valves at 10 hrs. He also told me that all of the gear boxes have magnetic plugs. This is probably the most important feature to capture suspended iron particles.

So does anyone know for sure what type of oil in the engine for factory fill? Is it a true break in oil or same as they sell for refill?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,240 Posts
Look at the color of my rear diff oil at 20 hrs. It's supposed to be green from BPR. I showed it to the dealer. They said it's normal. Looks pretty nasty if you ask me.
My transmission oil looked like that too at 10 hrs. It was like liquid chrome.
I ride my 1,000 like a 1,000 was made to be ridden, so I'm sure mine made more metal than an old man putting around his yard idling half the time.

I break mine in hard, just like it will be ridden, so the rings are seated right away!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
414 Posts
The thing is we pay 9k plus for our machines whats another 50-100.00 gonna hurt.. I did mine at 14hrs and the engine oil looked decent. As far as the gear box and axles they were sliverish color. It cost me 70.00 to do my own 10hr service with a can am filter, rotella t oil and valvoline synthetic gear oil. Dealer said at 10hrs they refuse to touch the valves at anything before 30hrs. They said they did hundreds of machines that were barely off spec at 10hrs so its a waste of their time to do it.. Im at 6X hrs and still havent done my valves but going to at some point this summer. Not paying 200.00 to get the dealer to do it.. Also the dealer said keep your recipts and they cant void your warranty as long as you used the correct oil.. Some place on here someone emailed can am customer service and they said the same thing. Now a days they is oil analysis so they can tell exactly what went wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
IMO there is a lot of hype. That is why price varies from dealer to dealer. I am a firm believer in changing oils after a break in period. Almost all oil breaks down and separates from sitting idle for prolonged periods and who really knows how many months the engine and bike sat in a crate.
One thing for sure is; you need to check things for leaks or loosening nuts.
You should be able to hear your valves if they are out of spec. I did hear a friends valves and when he checked, they were a little out of spec after a few thousand KM.

the engine would not have oil in it while in the crate...
BRP engines are shipped with break-in oil.

well i guess i learned something new lol
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top