Can-Am ATV Forum banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone, decided to reach out as I’ve kind of run out of ideas at this point and was wanting to see if anyone else could think of anything.
Was riding my quad down a steep rocky grade when the motor suddenly shut off. I came to a stop and keyed the quad on and off but all the quad would do is display the letter “E” in the gear selection position on the display and nothing else. I had a friend tow me back to the truck when we couldn’t get it to start or do anything, pushed it on the ramps and brought it home where it has sat till now as I haven’t been able to get to the bottom of this.
Current symptoms are as follows. Turn the key to “lights” or “no lights” (makes no difference) and the quad is practically silent, like basically zero sound outside of a very faint ticking from the fuel pump location and what I am assuming is the intake off the bottom of the air box. The gear shift indicator displays “N” at first (regardless of what gear the quad is in) then after about 15-20 seconds switches to “E” quad wont start, will not respond any differently if I turn the key on and off.

What I have done so far. All three relays under the hood have been replaced. Bran new battery (bought two days ago) All wiring outside of stock has been disconnected. Starter solenoid replaced. The three wires on the side of the trans have been disconnected cleaned thoroughly (with break clean) dielectric grease applied re-crimped and reconnected (including the 4th wire further to the front of the quad) All fuses have been closely checked with a flashlight and are all good. Have tried to start in all different gear positions, same result. I have purchased a new ignition switch but have not yet installed it as I’m not sure if this will fix the problem and I have to take it to the shop to have them code the new key to the quad.

Is there something obvious im missing here?? I was wondering if there was a way to jump start the quad by sending power straight to the starter solenoid but am unsure if that would work or the quad would even run with Can-Am’s D.E.S.S system.
I’ve attached some pictures to the post so everyone can see what I’m seeing, any advice would be much apricated, thanks in advance!
 

Attachments

·
Nobody Special
2020 Outlander XMR 1000r Max
Joined
·
1,386 Posts
I hate gremlins. They get into your machine and make weird things happen. Welcome to the site. I keep thinking of the steep rocky grade and I think you should test your fuel pump. As for the transmission range problem, I wonder if something broke inside. Try pulling the belt and spin the secondary by hand while shifting. See if the actual gearing works. It is possible to have a broken wire in the harness that is messing with your computer.
 

·
Registered
2014 Outlander max xt 650
Joined
·
137 Posts
Does the machine turn over with the key or by hand? Thinking maybe it was starved of oil on the steep grade. Just thinking outside the box.
 

·
Regular Joe
2014 Maverick 1000r
Joined
·
6,002 Posts
You need to post more often :p

But in all seriousness, I sure hope something didn't let go in the gearbox, and that's why the selector is jammed in E(error) mode. The bike won't try to start unless the cluster recognizes P or N. I've heard we have a SIG feature (start in gear), but I haven't paid much attention to it

All that to say- yes, you can jam a screwdriver in the solenoid posts, and the bike should start/run, with the key on (headlights or no, shouldn't matter) The DESS pass/fail just allows the ECM to work the injectors. Nothing you've said indicates you've got any issues with DESS, so you should be able to crank the thing up by bypassing the cluster. If that allows you to roll the motor over, but it still won't fire, THEN you start to look at fuel pressure or coil issues, etc. So far, tho, I don't think you have anything along those lines, but rather, something in the gearbox
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Wow awesome, thanks a ton for the info you guys! definitely have given me a few ideas to try that I wasn't thinking about at the time as my brain tends to start to turn off when I start to get frustrated lol.

I hate gremlins. They get into your machine and make weird things happen. Welcome to the site. I keep thinking of the steep rocky grade and I think you should test your fuel pump. As for the transmission range problem, I wonder if something broke inside. Try pulling the belt and spin the secondary by hand while shifting. See if the actual gearing works. It is possible to have a broken wire in the harness that is messing with your computer.
Yea I've been thinking about testing that fuel pump as well as it the original pump that came with the quad and has been with me for over 6000km! That idea of pulling the belt and spinning the secondary is a great idea (I don't know why I didn't think of that, probably because I was to focused on cursing) lol. Im going to attempt a continuity test on the wires to make sure they aren't broken. (Will attach the pages of the service manual that I'm looking at so you guys see what I'm up to)


Does the machine turn over with the key or by hand? Thinking maybe it was starved of oil on the steep grade. Just thinking outside the box.

The quad will not turn over with the key, have not tried by hand yet but I will try tonight as well as jumping the starter solenoid. I will check the oil as well.



You need to post more often :p

But in all seriousness, I sure hope something didn't let go in the gearbox, and that's why the selector is jammed in E(error) mode. The bike won't try to start unless the cluster recognizes P or N. I've heard we have a SIG feature (start in gear), but I haven't paid much attention to it

All that to say- yes, you can jam a screwdriver in the solenoid posts, and the bike should start/run, with the key on (headlights or no, shouldn't matter) The DESS pass/fail just allows the ECM to work the injectors. Nothing you've said indicates you've got any issues with DESS, so you should be able to crank the thing up by bypassing the cluster. If that allows you to roll the motor over, but it still won't fire, THEN you start to look at fuel pressure or coil issues, etc. So far, tho, I don't think you have anything along those lines, but rather, something in the gearbox
Ok great, good to know about jumping the solenoid, will try that out this evening to see if I can get her to crank over / fire. Im also gonna do a quick compression test to see that I'm all good in that department. I'm hoping that I wont be on the hook for a gearbox rebuild; but if I'm being honest the quad doesn't owe me anything as its over 10 years old now and well over 6000km on the clock and this is the first really major problem I've had with it in all that time. And yes I agree I should post more lol, as you can see I joined in 2012 shortly after purchasing said quad and have always come here as there is a wealth of knowledge on this forum. I just never posted as I've always been able to find an answer on here through old posts where someone had figured my problem out already. I figured Id reach out this time tho as I couldn't find any real answer or only versions of what I was experiencing, and who knows maybe there is someone out there that might benefit from this thread some day(y)

Below are the pages of the service manual.
 

Attachments

·
Nobody Special
2020 Outlander XMR 1000r Max
Joined
·
1,386 Posts
Yea I've been thinking about testing that fuel pump as well as it the original pump that came with the quad and has been with me for over 6000km! That idea of pulling the belt and spinning the secondary is a great idea (I don't know why I didn't think of that, probably because I was to focused on cursing) lol. Im going to attempt a continuity test on the wires to make sure they aren't broken. (Will attach the pages of the service manual that I'm looking at so you guys see what I'm up to)
The quad will not turn over with the key, have not tried by hand yet but I will try tonight as well as jumping the starter solenoid.
Holding the foot brake down is the bypass for starting in gear.
 

·
Registered
2014 Outlander max xt 650
Joined
·
137 Posts
I do use the start in gear feature often just being lazy I guess when I shut the machine off on flat surface. Pulling the hand brake hard or stepping firmly on the foot brake allows it to start in gear.
 

·
Regular Joe
2014 Maverick 1000r
Joined
·
6,002 Posts
Holding the foot brake down is the bypass for starting in gear.
Essentially, you just have to trip the brake light switch. That's the electronic signal the ECM is looking for to "allow" for starter juice
 
  • Like
Reactions: Freewill and xsever

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hey guys, so after much dicking around in the dark after work the other night I've figured out a few things. The quad will crank over if I jump the solenoid and there is no nasty mechanical noise like a clunking or something, all sounds normal.

After performing the continuity test (that is on those pages of the service manual that I attached to my last post) all the switches check out and show next to no resistance. So after confirming that, I decided to trace the three wires up to the ECM to check continuity. I pulled off plug "A" (on the face of the ECM located under the display) located the three pins in the connector that are attached to those wires and checked for continuity between the pins in the plug and the opposite end of the wire (detached from the side of the gearbox with my meter attached) And again I measured basically zero resistance indicating that all three wires were intact all the way up to connector "A"s pins.

Sooooooo.....after talking with a buddy of mine, and going over the wiring diagram for the quad (which I will attach for you guys to see) we discovered 4 pins in the second connector on the ECM connector "B" that went basically straight to ground and were spliced in with the "Ignition key (ON), Multifunction Switch (Override) and Multifunction Switch (Start). When looking at the wiring diagram I've attached you will notice that there is a splice point at "JT BK1" indicated by a black circle with a white center and immediately after the splice the wire goes straight to a bolted frame ground and engine ground.

So based on a bit of a hunch we decided to check those wires back to ground (again by connecting to engine ground bolt and the other end to the 4 pins in connector "B" one by one) and to my surprise....maybe I shouldn't have been surprised?.....all 4 wires showed almost 2000Ω. So a fair bit of resistance for wires that should just be going straight to ground. At this point im leaning towards this being a bad ground or splice? Would be great if it were that simple but I will believe it when I see it. I haven't had a chance to trace the wires back to the ground point yet or check the condition of the splice but I will over the next few days and post back here with the results once this god dam rain stops. For now fingers crossed that it is a simple grounding issue and that the quad will fire up and run fine once I achieve good continuity.

Side note, I also rechecked all fuses to make sure they were good (front and back of quad) and checked that I had full voltage at all fuse terminals (which I did)
 

Attachments

·
Registered
2014 Outlander max xt 650
Joined
·
137 Posts
Wow due diligence pays off. I have been told in the past that more than 50percent of simple electronic issues is a bad ground. Good luck with your situation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
WOOO-HOOO! SHE'S RUNNIN!!!

So after tracing the 4 black wires off of connector "B" on the ECM I followed them down under the dash and along the section of upper frame that supports the seat (see pictures) and after isolating them at that location very quickly realized that they went to the back of the quad somewhere. Sure enough just beside the right rear tire and to the right hand side of the battery bay (looking from the rear of the quad forward) there was a wire hanging out in mid air (three wires crimped together) with the section of the connector that fits over the grounding stud snapped off. So I quickly put a new connector on the wires, cleaned the terminal for good measure and reconnected everything. Turned the key to the run (no lights) and the multifunction switch to "run" hit the start button and TA-DAAAA! it started and runs like a champ just like before. Just wanted to let you guys all know how it ended as I know that its all to common for people not to leave a proper "ending" to their post that leaves the reader often wondering "sooo wait what happened in the end?" So all good problem solved and I think the lesson of the day is if you are having issues starting your quad AT ALL check all your grounds FIRST and save yourself a lot of time. (y)

Thanks again to all you who took the time to read and give helpful suggestions, it was greatly appreciated!

As a final note I will also add that I changed the plugs and did a compression test as well which gave me 150psi one side and 135psi the other side, which from what I can tell is acceptable. Anyways thanks again guys, and have a great weekend!
 

Attachments

·
Nobody Special
2020 Outlander XMR 1000r Max
Joined
·
1,386 Posts
It is possible to have a broken wire in the harness that is messing with your computer.
WOOO-HOOO! SHE'S RUNNIN!!!

So after tracing the 4 black wires off of connector "B" on the ECM I followed them down under the dash and along the section of upper frame that supports the seat (see pictures) and after isolating them at that location very quickly realized that they went to the back of the quad somewhere. Sure enough just beside the right rear tire and to the right hand side of the battery bay (looking from the rear of the quad forward) there was a wire hanging out in mid air (three wires crimped together) with the section of the connector that fits over the grounding stud snapped off. So I quickly put a new connector on the wires, cleaned the terminal for good measure and reconnected everything. Turned the key to the run (no lights) and the multifunction switch to "run" hit the start button and TA-DAAAA! it started and runs like a champ just like before.
Awesome! Glad you found the problem and thanks for wrapping it up with letting us know what the fault was!
 

·
Super Moderator
2016 Outlander Max XT 650
Joined
·
1,338 Posts
@Brandvok
I echo Frewill! Glad you got it sorted and thanks for sharing with us the solution in a detailed manner. We need more forum members like that!
Happy ridin'
 
  • Like
Reactions: BombardierBomb
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top