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2020 Outlander 450
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've started looking for a salvaged renegade or outlander 1000 so I have a whole donor bike to take the engine/trans, ECM, harness, diffs, etc. out of and use in my bike. Finding a salvage bike is proving to be more difficult and looks like I will probably have to find components individually. I have searched and there isn't a ton of content for engine swaps in general, and a lot of the threads are older. I just had some questions, some of which are easily found when searched, and some others that aren't as easy to find the answer to. I wanted to start the conversation and get as much as input as possible for reference. Ill list some of the immediate questions I have off the top of my head, but feel free to elaborate or add anything that I don't mention. My questions are based on not being able to find a whole donor bike and purchasing individual parts and I'm going to cross reference several part #s in question, I just haven't yet, so if they seem too basic my apologies. I thought it would be easier to find a whole bike and hoped I would have all the parts needed from it to swap over.

Before it is asked why I don't just buy a 1000...I bought the 450 new and have a lot of fab time in the bike for the renegade XMR rear bumper, carbon fiber dash, the suspension set up I have for how I ride it, and I like the L body style better than the G2s (once I modified it). Plus, I think it will be cool to have that much power in that bike because it wont be expected. I also plan to run drop in cams and a modified Empire megaphone for a renegade.

1. Is the fuel pump assembly different or can I reuse the 450 pump assembly?
2. If I find a motor and buy an ECM separate, can B.U.D.S. sync the two? I have the BUDS software and I briefly searched this and couldn't find my answer. I would have it re-flashed anyway to raise the rev limiter, advance timing, etc and also plan to run another fuel programmer, probably a PC5 and autotune bc I'm familiar with that setup, but there may be a better suited fuel device for the 1000?
3. What is the difference in the air box? I assume I cant use mine but again...haven't researched that yet. It would be nice if it was the same because I heat molded mine and already have a full 2" inlet on it.
4. What will I need for the 1000 diffs and axles to work with my hubs? Do I need to swap to the 1000 hubs? I have stretched trailing arms now (stock arms cut and stretched), but I know that the aftermarket stretched arms say they don't fit a 450, so what is the difference and will 1000 arms bolt up to my frame to be used?
5. In general, what other items do I need to be concerned with or look out for?

I'm not worried about the physical fitment of the engine to frame or exhaust or anything like that, just the fine details I would run into along the way. I know some of these questions are pretty basic and I'm going to do the research, but its always good to have additional input. Most of the searches turn into discussions about going BBK instead and are based on going v-twin to v-twin and being able to utilize the ECM from the bike with a fuel tuner.

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I have been waiting for this thread for a while and even though it isn't mine I am excited for this build.

1. Is the fuel pump assembly different or can I reuse the 450 pump assembly?

Fuel pumps are the same.

2. If I find a motor and buy an ECM separate, can B.U.D.S. sync the two? I have the BUDS software and I briefly searched this and couldn't find my answer. I would have it re-flashed anyway to raise the rev limiter, advance timing, etc and also plan to run another fuel programmer, probably a PC5 and autotune bc I'm familiar with that setup, but there may be a better suited fuel device for the 1000?

The ecm doesn't know it has a new motor connected to it. As long as you use the correct sensors, wiring harness and the same key as what is programmed to ecm you should be fine.

3. What is the difference in the air box? I assume I cant use mine but again...haven't researched that yet. It would be nice if it was the same because I heat molded mine and already have a full 2" inlet on it.

Air box is the same as the 1000s.

4. What will I need for the 1000 diffs and axles to work with my hubs? Do I need to swap to the 1000 hubs? I have stretched trailing arms now (stock arms cut and stretched), but I know that the aftermarket stretched arms say they don't fit a 450, so what is the difference and will 1000 arms bolt up to my frame to be used?

The actual frame of the 450-1000 is the same. The arms are different as the 450 uses a slightly lighter trailing arm and bearing setup but the mounting points and hubs are the same.

The 450 rear diff is the same as the 1000 in 2017. The axles are lighter duty but you can put the heavier ones in with the original 450 hubs as they are also the same.

The rear driveshaft is different. Not sure what is different other than maybe length just because the 450 uses the same cases for trans and engine.

The front diff is also the same as the 1000s but you will need the vtwin driveshaft setup.


5. In general, what other items do I need to be concerned with or look out for?

Even the throttle body is the same it just has a split after the throttle body for the twins. You should just be able to buy some of the oem mounts for the v twins and mount it in fairly easily.






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2020 Outlander 450
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134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have been waiting for this thread for a while and even though it isn't mine I am excited for this build.

1. Is the fuel pump assembly different or can I reuse the 450 pump assembly?

Fuel pumps are the same.

2. If I find a motor and buy an ECM separate, can B.U.D.S. sync the two? I have the BUDS software and I briefly searched this and couldn't find my answer. I would have it re-flashed anyway to raise the rev limiter, advance timing, etc and also plan to run another fuel programmer, probably a PC5 and autotune bc I'm familiar with that setup, but there may be a better suited fuel device for the 1000?

The ecm doesn't know it has a new motor connected to it. As long as you use the correct sensors, wiring harness and the same key as what is programmed to ecm you should be fine.

3. What is the difference in the air box? I assume I cant use mine but again...haven't researched that yet. It would be nice if it was the same because I heat molded mine and already have a full 2" inlet on it.

Air box is the same as the 1000s.

4. What will I need for the 1000 diffs and axles to work with my hubs? Do I need to swap to the 1000 hubs? I have stretched trailing arms now (stock arms cut and stretched), but I know that the aftermarket stretched arms say they don't fit a 450, so what is the difference and will 1000 arms bolt up to my frame to be used?

The actual frame of the 450-1000 is the same. The arms are different as the 450 uses a slightly lighter trailing arm and bearing setup but the mounting points and hubs are the same.

The 450 rear diff is the same as the 1000 in 2017. The axles are lighter duty but you can put the heavier ones in with the original 450 hubs as they are also the same.

The rear driveshaft is different. Not sure what is different other than maybe length just because the 450 uses the same cases for trans and engine.

The front diff is also the same as the 1000s but you will need the vtwin driveshaft setup.


5. In general, what other items do I need to be concerned with or look out for?

Even the throttle body is the same it just has a split after the throttle body for the twins. You should just be able to buy some of the oem mounts for the v twins and mount it in fairly easily.

Wow, that leaves me even more optimistic than I was before I appreciate the information and the enthusiasm toward the build. I have heard the diffs were the same and the frame and numerous other components, but some of the parts I've looked up have different part numbers and is confusing me. For example, the front and rear diffs...



As for the ECM, I guess I was thinking in terms of the flywheel matching up to the computer so ignition timing is correct, but as long as its an ECM for the year engine I shouldn't have an issue?



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Wow, that leaves me even more optimistic than I was before I appreciate the information and the enthusiasm toward the build. I have heard the diffs were the same and the frame and numerous other components, but some of the parts I've looked up have different part numbers and is confusing me. For example, the front and rear diffs...
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As for the ECM, I guess I was thinking in terms of the flywheel matching up to the computer so ignition timing is correct, but as long as its an ECM for the year engine I shouldn't have an issue?
 

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Yes they used a ton of different rear ends and a couple of different front diffs but basically all of them will work.

2017 450 front diff:703500908
2017 1000 front diff:703500908

That is from partzilla

2017 450 rear diff:703500878
2017 1000 rear diff:703500878

Also from partzilla.





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The difference in the front diff part bumber you posted is one is the slow engaging front diff for no eps and the other is quick engage. They are interchangeable.



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If you click on a part you can look below and see what other models it will fit. It will sometimes fit other models as well.

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703500878 as you can see went in not only the 450-570 but also the 650 850 and 1000.


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2020 Outlander 450
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134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I have been waiting for this thread for a while and even though it isn't mine I am excited for this build.

1. Is the fuel pump assembly different or can I reuse the 450 pump assembly?

Fuel pumps are the same.

2. If I find a motor and buy an ECM separate, can B.U.D.S. sync the two? I have the BUDS software and I briefly searched this and couldn't find my answer. I would have it re-flashed anyway to raise the rev limiter, advance timing, etc and also plan to run another fuel programmer, probably a PC5 and autotune bc I'm familiar with that setup, but there may be a better suited fuel device for the 1000?

The ecm doesn't know it has a new motor connected to it. As long as you use the correct sensors, wiring harness and the same key as what is programmed to ecm you should be fine.

3. What is the difference in the air box? I assume I cant use mine but again...haven't researched that yet. It would be nice if it was the same because I heat molded mine and already have a full 2" inlet on it.

Air box is the same as the 1000s.

4. What will I need for the 1000 diffs and axles to work with my hubs? Do I need to swap to the 1000 hubs? I have stretched trailing arms now (stock arms cut and stretched), but I know that the aftermarket stretched arms say they don't fit a 450, so what is the difference and will 1000 arms bolt up to my frame to be used?

The actual frame of the 450-1000 is the same. The arms are different as the 450 uses a slightly lighter trailing arm and bearing setup but the mounting points and hubs are the same.

The 450 rear diff is the same as the 1000 in 2017. The axles are lighter duty but you can put the heavier ones in with the original 450 hubs as they are also the same.

The rear driveshaft is different. Not sure what is different other than maybe length just because the 450 uses the same cases for trans and engine.

The front diff is also the same as the 1000s but you will need the vtwin driveshaft setup.


5. In general, what other items do I need to be concerned with or look out for?

Even the throttle body is the same it just has a split after the throttle body for the twins. You should just be able to buy some of the oem mounts for the v twins and mount it in fairly easily.






Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
703500878 as you can see went in not only the 450-570 but also the 650 850 and 1000.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
If you click on a part you can look below and see what other models it will fit. It will sometimes fit other models as well.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
So I guess my biggest hurdle is learning how to use the internet lol. This has been extremely helpful thanks a ton for the info and taking the time to educate me. Now I just need a lead on an engine! The only one I've seen recently relatively close to me was gone by the time I messaged the guy about it, and I'd rather not pay $3500 for a remanufactured that takes 2 months to get here.
 
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2015 Outlander XMR 650
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I have been waiting for this thread for a while and even though it isn't mine I am excited for this build.
Ditto, lol

HF:

1: you're nuts
2: I love it

Thanks @CanAmRancher1, for sharing the knowledge. I coulda tried to relay what I thought I "knew", but I wouldn't be speaking from any position of first-hand experience

@HalfFull17 it sounds like I might be able to help you with at least a gearbox (outta my '15 XMR), front driveshaft (outta the '16 parts bike), a QE front diff (if that's something you're interested in), and maybe a few other knick-knacks, if it helps, let me know and we'll figure it out.

@CanAmRancher1 do you happen to know if BUDS can flash one of my 650 ECM's for 1000cc operation?
 

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I do not know about that I would about bet that you could send it to monster or someone who flashes them and they could make it work.



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2020 Outlander 450
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134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ditto, lol

HF:

1: you're nuts
2: I love it

Thanks @CanAmRancher1, for sharing the knowledge. I coulda tried to relay what I thought I "knew", but I wouldn't be speaking from any position of first-hand experience

@HalfFull17 it sounds like I might be able to help you with at least a gearbox (outta my '15 XMR), front driveshaft (outta the '16 parts bike), a QE front diff (if that's something you're interested in), and maybe a few other knick-knacks, if it helps, let me know and we'll figure it out.

@CanAmRancher1 do you happen to know if BUDS can flash one of my 650 ECM's for 1000cc operation?
I would definitely be interested I appreciate it. All I am waiting for at this point to pull the trigger on getting parts together is the closing on my house. It was scheduled for yesterday, then rescheduled for today pending the appraisal came in. Its already 5 days overdue now and they cant get in touch with the guy that did the appraisal :rolleyes: So just waiting on that to go through incase I need to put more money down.
 

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2020 Outlander 450
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I do not know about that I would about bet that you could send it to monster or someone who flashes them and they could make it work.



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Thats a good thought, Ill reach out to them and see what they say I had Wick-It perform the Monster flash on my 450 ECM. @BombardierBomb do you have the harness by chance as well?
 

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2015 Outlander XMR 650
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@BombardierBomb[/USER] do you have the harness by chance as well?
Sure do, didn't come across any cuts/damage the other day when I was pulling the motor.
 

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2020 Outlander 450
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134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
@BombardierBomb Awesome! If you don't mind, at your leisure...could you pm a quick list of the parts you have and aren't going to use that would be of use to this swap? That would be fantastic and Ill look into the ECM aspect. This thing is going to be a whole new machine, I have new rear fenders (melted one side testing exhaust without the shield on and bought the other so they were both new), new side panels (melted), and a new front fascia (because the front tires WILL grab the headlight bracket and plastic if you run forward offset arms and don't have your Elkas tuned correctly for a no lift bike on 30s that jumps lol.

I'm getting pretty excited about this as it all is starting to become a reality rather than just something I said in defense of owning a 450 haha.
 

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2015 Outlander XMR 650
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Sure can, no problem.

That damn Hurricane brought my wrench time to a screeching halt, so I'm not even done with my bike yet 🤦‍♂️ but I'll hopefully spend some time on it this weekend figuring out what's what.
 

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2020 Outlander 450
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Sure can, no problem.

That damn Hurricane brought my wrench time to a screeching halt, so I'm not even done with my bike yet 🤦‍♂️ but I'll hopefully spend some time on it this weekend figuring out what's what.
Stay safe down there! Im working from home currently, don't watch tv or read the news, and my social media extent is mostly limited to looking at marketplace and 4 wheeler pages lol, so I didn't even realize there was a hurricane coming through. I hope y'all pull through ok, our thoughts and prayers are with y'all. No rush on the parts just whenever you can.
 

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2020 Outlander 450
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
@CanAmRancher1 @BombardierBomb received an answer short and to the point when asked about (Monster) flashing the 650 ECM to 1000 parameters. So that is confirmed.
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I actually don't know as much about the Can-Am ecus but I think they do it like Polaris and use all the same ecus just with a different flash/tune. That is for the gen 2 atvs anyway.

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2020 Outlander 450
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I actually don't know as much about the Can-Am ecus but I think they do it like Polaris and use all the same ecus just with a different flash/tune. That is for the gen 2 atvs anyway.

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That’s what I’ve gathered. The v twin ecus are all capable, just not my 450 ecu.
 
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