To all you high horse power mudders,I cant get enough of your site. I have spent many hours looking throw the forum to try to find an answer to my question. I have a 2008 Renegade 800X that I use to Dune and sand drag in Nevada at Sand Mountain. The Renegade was dynoed at 58.7 Horsepower (notstock) to the rear wheels. The problem is I run the hill at 6800 to 7200 RPMs and at speeds at around 50 miles per hour. My max torque and power are at 5650 RPMS and around 33 miles per hour on the Dyno. I run three stock steel weights and three Dalton Weights with no rivits and I would like to get the power up to where my Higher RPMS are, or do I need to Clutch to get more speed to get back down to my 5650 RPMS. I would like to gain some up hill speed butI dont have a clue as to where to go. I was able to find 2ea 650 Helix and am going to see if it helps. Any ideas.
CVT Clutching
Kevin
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I may be completely off base here, but if Kevin is running at 50mph at 7200rpm up the hill would he not be slipping on the primary just a bit?? Losing speed uphill??
Wouldn't adding a bit of weight to the Dalton's and having a stiffer secondary give him a bit lower gear while ascending up the hill keeping his rpm's up and having the most power where he needs it?? It doesn't seam that he needs every mph of top end speed just all the power that his motor can put out at the fastest speed the motor can muster with the load at peak power.
There may be a bit less wheel speed on the flat but quicker acceleration and holding speed while he goes up the hill, right?
Please disregard this post if I am on the completely wrong path.
Wouldn't adding a bit of weight to the Dalton's and having a stiffer secondary give him a bit lower gear while ascending up the hill keeping his rpm's up and having the most power where he needs it?? It doesn't seam that he needs every mph of top end speed just all the power that his motor can put out at the fastest speed the motor can muster with the load at peak power.
There may be a bit less wheel speed on the flat but quicker acceleration and holding speed while he goes up the hill, right?
Please disregard this post if I am on the completely wrong path.
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You are completely on the right path....100%. Adding more secondary spring has a similar effect to lowering the helix angle. The biggest problem is the lack of selection of springs OR helix angles. I don't like real stiff secondary springs....but its a personal preference....
I doubt he's slipping the primary, but I still agree with your analogy.
I gained about 300rpm when I went to the 650 helix....and Kevin may as well. In which case....add a little primary weight = more HP to the ground.
I doubt he's slipping the primary, but I still agree with your analogy.
I gained about 300rpm when I went to the 650 helix....and Kevin may as well. In which case....add a little primary weight = more HP to the ground.
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2,840 Posts
DaveB wrote:
Yes, I've made some, completely useless for mud bikes, because they get so thin on the edge. The mudders ride on the tip of the helix, (in low range) and after about one pass, it rips the tip off. Remember, these helixs' are made from plastic. I've been running one in my turbo to good effect. It is only on the tip for a split second, and works really well. If the mudders had some lower gears, (working on that), they could be almost shifted out, and that would put them in the bottom, where the strength is. I've hired a gear designer to custom design me a set of gears for these. Depending on my equipment, and the gear design, I might make them myself, if I can't make them, I'll have them made. If the gear designer can come up with a design that'll work, I'm gonna sell them. This will also help belt life greatly, and won't take long to pay for the gears in reduced belt cost.
Yes, I've made some, completely useless for mud bikes, because they get so thin on the edge. The mudders ride on the tip of the helix, (in low range) and after about one pass, it rips the tip off. Remember, these helixs' are made from plastic. I've been running one in my turbo to good effect. It is only on the tip for a split second, and works really well. If the mudders had some lower gears, (working on that), they could be almost shifted out, and that would put them in the bottom, where the strength is. I've hired a gear designer to custom design me a set of gears for these. Depending on my equipment, and the gear design, I might make them myself, if I can't make them, I'll have them made. If the gear designer can come up with a design that'll work, I'm gonna sell them. This will also help belt life greatly, and won't take long to pay for the gears in reduced belt cost.
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121 Posts
Cool thanks Dave, I was just thinking about when I put my stock tires back on when I had the same clutch set-up as when I am using my Laws.
650 Dalton Weights with hollow steel rivets green Dalton primary and red EPI secondary. The red secondary made more difference in the clutch than anything. With my stock tires I was able to run 68mph I could never get there with my stock clutching.
650 Dalton Weights with hollow steel rivets green Dalton primary and red EPI secondary. The red secondary made more difference in the clutch than anything. With my stock tires I was able to run 68mph I could never get there with my stock clutching.
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6,496 Posts
i didn't really like the red EPI secondary. it starts out too stiff and doesn't have a high enough spring rate, IMO. i think a higher spring rate secondary with a starting point between stock and the EPI red would be nearly perfect. high tension is important for backshifting, so the EPI will backshift better. the lack of secondary options really kills us in terms of really tuning the clutches. if we could get a roller clutch to reduce fiction and more helix options, good lord the amount of tuning we could do would be nearly infinite.
I agree Ganibis, but got wake makes a good point as well, So It's been sugestedthat Ilighten my stock weights and now I should add weight to my Dalton Weights. I guess there is no wrong answer, This is where trial and err comes in. It's a good thing I am heading to Sand Mountain for Easter week end, thats probably the best way to find my answer. I have a good radar gun as well as a GPSto check my up hill speeds.
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till you know where your shift out is and what it is doing, you won't know for sure if you need to add or reduce mass from the weights. if you put in the 650 helix, you will most likely have to add mass to the weights to bring the RPM's down a little. course another question is where the peak power of your motor is, that will play a role in where shift out needs to happen.
Also think about what i said a few posts ago. YOu have it CLOSE the way you have it now. SO if all else fails, leave it set up exactly like you have it now and add a primary spring that will have a different finish rate that will riase your rpms slightly. I think if you mess with the weights, you need such a little raise in rpms that it would be harder to do with the weights and it would be easier to do with a different primary spring.
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