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Discussion Starter #1
Okay the bike before my traxter has been finished so it is time to dig in to my 2001 traxter version 7423. The atv was diagnosed with a bad starter clutch and shows very low miles on the odometer. I have a downloaded manual and started last Saturday stripping it down for a engine removal. I did watch read others who have been able to simply shift the motor enough to do it in the chassis. I have decided to pull the motor for the fun of it and see whats inside on the bench where it should be easier for me to learn all things traxter 500.

So far it looks like it did not spend much time outside as all the hardware seems close to new and have come out without a problem, the only rust was on the exhaust nuts at the head. Carb came right off no problem and will get torn down and ultrasonic cleaned, I removed the pull starter that I could not pull and all seems fine with it. The motor does turn over but feels like something is dragging. I am expecting something came loose and it is why the starter clutch cannot turn it over. time will tell.

Going will be slow as I have numerous jobs to do that are frankly more important, I hope to pull the engine this week. If anyone wants a picture of something along the way let me know.
 

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I am expecting something came loose and it is why the starter clutch cannot turn it over
My deja vu bells started clanging when I read this. Somewhere on this big ole inter web, my minds telling me I read something about those early traxter/quest engines having random severe internal rotating assembly failures.... damnit can't place the specifics right now..... hope I'm wrong..
 

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Right or wrong I am going to find something inside that is not good. I simply hope it is a part that is available or able to be fixed. Hey worse case I get to sell some parts and help someone else out.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Day two
what a pain, I see these are no better than other powersports in that they certainly are not designed for ease of service. Yes basic maintenance would be easy but if you need to pull a motor there are hours wasted by needless design issues.

Anyway the motor is out and hopefully next week I can steal some time to start digging inside to see what the problem is. If you run into a similar circumstance I would guess NOT pulling the motor and just removing the rear end will save you a couple hours labor and a bunch of hassle.

I have no regrets yet as I wanted to learn the process and plan on tearing it down on the bench where in the chassis you will be on the floor if you do not have a lift. Anyway here of some of the extracted motor.

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Glad to see you finally got time to work on your Traxter. Hope you can fix it. I really like mine. Getting parts for it may be a problem tho. Mine has been in the shop for more than a month waiting for a $20 brake cylinder part. Dealer told me it's been a nightmare getting parts from Canada because of the virus shutting down shipping from up north. Was hoping I could drive it a few more times before we have a foot of snow on the ground and I have to store it.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Mine has brembo brakes I buy those all day long what do you need?

If rebuilding the rear master know that it may only be 50-100 brand new.
 

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Dealer said they were waiting for a $20 part for the master cylinder. He said some of the o-rings were shot from sitting around for so long without being used. They are probably blowing smoke up my skirt to milk more money out of me but I am no mechanic so I'm stuck letting them rape me if they want to. I should have suspected I would get ripped off when I dropped off the machine and tried to show the mechanic that the rear brake caliper didn't make good contact when I squeezed it and the mechanic told me the left caliper wasn't for the rear brake. I had to argue with him and show him he was wrong and even then he seemed lost as to what could be wrong. Guess I need to find an independent mechanic I can trust like I have for my diesel pickup and Toyota SUV.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Independent or dealer should not matter as much as finding simply a good mechanic. I have seen good and poor in both places so it is tough no matter which way you go. If you want get me the part they are looking for on the rear master and I can check my sources.

I suspect they simply discovered Brembo decided a couple decades ago to stop selling rebuild kits and are expecting them to be like Jap. companies who do. Since I have my rear master mostly off the atv I will try and take a pek at it to see if I suspect it is simply a motorcycle master and the entire unit may such short money they should just replace the whole unit and be done with it.

I may be wrong but the last rear Brembo master on a Ducati I bought was only around $50 for a brand new complete unit and I had it in a few days.
 

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Independent or dealer should not matter as much as finding simply a good mechanic. I have seen good and poor in both places so it is tough no matter which way you go. If you want get me the part they are looking for on the rear master and I can check my sources.

I suspect they simply discovered Brembo decided a couple decades ago to stop selling rebuild kits and are expecting them to be like Jap. companies who do. Since I have my rear master mostly off the atv I will try and take a pek at it to see if I suspect it is simply a motorcycle master and the entire unit may such short money they should just replace the whole unit and be done with it.

I may be wrong but the last rear Brembo master on a Ducati I bought was only around $50 for a brand new complete unit and I had it in a few days.
Thanks Ducvet, if I understand right they have most of the parts already and are just waiting for one other piece. They put out a trace to see where the part is so hopefully they will have it shortly. I'll give you a shout if it drags on much longer. Our good weather will end shortly and I had wanted to have the Traxter home and stored away before there is a foot of snow on the ground. It's no fun trying to start machinery when the temps are below zero. The way it looks now I'll have to leave it in my cargo trailer for the winter as I've already sealed up my storage sheds.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Not a problem. When they do get it wrapped up let me know what they were searching for so I may start researching the next thing I may need to find...lol

Searching through normal channels does show there are plenty of obsolete parts on these machines, luckily I see plenty of parts on the used market as they get parted out. I hope neither of us need to go there much but it is good to know.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
As I suspected it is a rear master cylinder from a Ducati supersport 1991-1998 (probably more models as well). They are available in 3 piston sizes 11, 12 and 13 cost for a new master is 53.00-69.00 brand new complete. you can see why rebuilds are not the way to go as you will likely spend more money rebuilding than replacing with new.

They are normally VERY reliable units but as anything can fail. FYI: I would bet all of the brake system is likewise motorcycle based and easily replaceable except for the brake lines but those you could have made easily.
 

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Nice pics, @Ducvet !! What a fascinating little motor design, for back in the day....
 

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What a fascinating little motor design, for back in the day
As a motorhead I am in part taking this apart just to see how it is put together, rotax has a good reputation but there are other manufacturers who also are popular but as a mechanic I know they are built more for the short term and not long term. I want to see if it is deserved. The miles on the odometer are quite low by my standards but I have no idea what the lifespan on a atv is, what is low,average and high miles to begin with?

The fact something is wrong at low miles is not uncommon if you simply have a defect from assembly or materials this is when they usually show up. This is why there are warranties as manufacturers understand zero failures is a impossibility, they still want as low a return rate as they can get. I hope it is simply assembly error (loose bolt etc) where the bad parts get changed and I get a low mile sound engine to try and break myself.

I hope to weigh the motor at some point just to get a idea, I can easily muscle around a V-twin Ducati engine without a engine hoist, so far this one seems heavier so I chickened out. it certainly took some finesse to remove it as they have it pretty well trapped in the frame. Left side comes up and out first instead of straight up and out for some reason. Nothing any sane person would design if they were going to plan on ever taking it back apart.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Having the day off for a non-holiday-holiday I went to work and dug into the engine a bit.

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Okay so on the bench I started by getting my factory manual out (which is pretty poor) I pulled the water pump cover and shift sensor no problem and found a hidden screw by the lower hose. water pump cover does NOT need to be pulled to remove the large cover, it likely will help on reassembly.

Once the cover was off ( a bunch of screws) I found my problem. I have photos on my shop tablet so cannot post them today but it was easy to see why it did not start. The flywheel bolts were loose and one had fallen into the stator, must have made some abnormal noise but they did not stop. Next the stator was junk they probably continued to try and start it until the starter clutch was destroyed.

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The spring on the starter clutch is all sacked out and the clutch faces are beat up from trying to start the engine with a worn out starter clutch and a locked up motor.

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The pawls from the starter clutch are loose from overworking the spring with a locked up motor, something had to give. It was luck that the motor finally did lock up solid so no more damage was done clearly they would have ran it until nothing was left.

On the upside everything inside looks new so there is no reason to think this is not the mileage listed, I need to start my hunt for parts . I laughed when I saw the starter clutch and had to walk about 4 feet to pick up a replacement off of my work bench. Yes it is a common part that I happen to stock in oem form, sadly the mating surfaces are different so I will need to try and find those parts otherwise I could reassemble it.

I have already looked and a new stator is no big deal or cost so it should not be overly expensive to get the motor fixed. Time to order up those new seals and gaskets. Given the flywheel bolts fell out and were not loctited i will likely dig in some more and actually prevent some future issues. This one was preventable if they had used about .01$ at the time of assembly, Poor workmanship and assembly practices.

Note if venturing in the flywheel nut is left hand thread and not mentioned in the manual. If I was to ever have one of these covers off every bolt under the cover would get torqued and red (272) loctite. I plan on stripping and cleaning while I wait for parts , I have plenty of copper wire in the bottom end to flush out but all parts are accounted for.
 

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Nice find, just be sure your shift piston is in the correct orientation when you put the cover plate back on, it can rotate down and jamb up the shifter when you bolt it back down. Speaking of spare brake parts, how bout a right hand brake lever? i may have snapped mine in the woods.
 

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btw i put about 1000 miles on my 01, in some very rough terrain, the quad is just a beast, will drive up things that other wont even try. I'm sure I'm beating the hell out of it but, as we've stated, we got them cheep as they didn't work before we fixed them. I threw some sunf 26" meats on it and it was a world of difference in traction.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Gless
Thanks for the heads up on the shift piston, I have not played with electro-hydraulic shifters before so this is a learning process for sure. As to the levers the right front brake lever is something I stock for motorcycles I have 2 on the shelf right now so yes they are available. If my quick books will open I can give you a idea of cost but IIRC they are under $20 ea
 

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Discussion Starter #19
So I have a few parts on order.

complete gasket kit
used stator from a 01
NOS flywheel assembly, fingers crossed on this one. As many know there are plenty of discontinued parts on these machines, this is good and bad. Whats good is there are some used parts available as some choose to sell off their atv's to get money out of them if they choose to not fix them. I probably spent an hour researching parts today to get a idea which way to go.

1. used parts from my year 2001 only.
2. used parts from various years and models that might be the same.
3. New parts, if available. for 2001 only
4. New parts, if available and similar from other models that might be the same.

The 2001 model seemed to be the end for a few part numbers as 2002 had updated part numbers. This is common when a manufacturer finds a part that does not hold up well and they want/need to track that the part is fixed with a revision. I suspect Bombardier found the starter clutches to have issues and changed suppliers or process from 2001 to 2002 such as
Starter sprag clutch
2001 = 711659115
2002 = 711659117
2003 = 711659117
2004 = didnt look
2005 = 420659117

If you look the part number from 01 to 02 changed, this number stayed the same up until 04 or 05 at which time it changed to a 420 pre number instead of 711. from looking at numbers I would bet this was a corporate sale of the company and a changing of inventory numbers because most modern items switched to 420 prefix. I do not believe the part changed. Likewise the sprag housing large sprag gear and magneto changed from 01 to 02 and then stayed similar to 05.

In the end i rolled the dice that a new old stock later model flywheel assembly would give me a sprag outer housing that was the last oem generation . A last generation sprag and hopefully the correct rotor/flywheel. I say hopefully because I have just my eyes studying flywheels on ebay, one parts fiche that matches the numbers and comparing to what I have. I hope to have the parts in a week or two and will let you know. There are different flywheels listed on ebay they are listed to work for the traxter 500 that clearly are OT correct due to ignition pickups not being where they should be so buyer beware as usual.

I almost tried the Chinese ebay starter clutch sets because they are brand new and include the large starter gear that is not easy to find and is a wear item. I may still try one as mine does have some wear , as a last resort. If anyone has run one of these sets let me know how they have held up, my concern is if the steel has been hardened enough to not wear out prematurely much like the 01 seems to have had a problem with. If I get one I might try having it cryogenic treated to help it last.

Onward.........
 
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