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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
I know but a good chance I'll get an efi in the future so be good to know about it
Ill take a pic when I get home and this is probably a good time to ask this question as well since Ive been wondering. I made the quick disconnect with parts I had at home from pneumatic quick disconnect fittings. I figured if it leaked or gas caused it to go bad I would remove but so far it hasnt leaked a drop and to be safe whenever I pop the gauge on it I full the fuse for the fuel pump and depressurize. I've been busy this morning but now I have a little time for a better update.

Wednesday night I blew out the vent lines, cleaned the radiator very well, did the leak down and was good, did a compression test the day before (dont know what the number should be since that info is non existent but i think its good), fuel pressure had previously been tested twice on different days at 51/52 psi, cleaned out the injector had plenty of carb cleaner spraying in an x pattern, checked all connections for wiring and hoses, double checked air box and snorkels for obstructions, etc. Last night I took it down the road with the only changes from the night before being vent lines blown out and radiator that was super clogged cleaned out. The first run felt marginally better especially down low it seemed like it had more power taking off but still just lull'ed at 5500 and up. Even though if felt better down low, it wasnt so much better that I couldnt say it was all in my head. Pulled it back in and wrote down the settings Bom set the controller to and checked the plug and it was dry as usual. Taking a shot in the dark I adjusted the WOT and raised it 2, then lowered the transition to WOT down to 2 (i think). This time it felt alot more normal down low and still lull'd out at 5500 or so but seemed like from there it gradually increased alot more quickly to 6500 and in the mid to upper 40s than before. Took it back and pulled the plug and it was dry around the electrodes but the top thread had fuel/ carbon around it.

That is where I left off I didnt have time to keep going with it, but Im still lost.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·

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I would still check the fuel pump under load to make sure it can flow enough to keep the psi up. Like a diesel truck with big injectors, it may run good and have plenty of pressure at low flow for lower rpm but when opened up the pressure drops because the pump can't push the volume needed at that psi. If the pump is going bad it may not be able to push the volume to keep the psi up. Be good to rule that out anyways.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
I would still check the fuel pump under load to make sure it can flow enough to keep the psi up. Like a diesel truck with big injectors, it may run good and have plenty of pressure at low flow for lower rpm but when opened up the pressure drops because the pump can't push the volume needed at that psi. If the pump is going bad it may not be able to push the volume to keep the psi up. Be good to rule that out anyways.
I am definitely going to check it out this afternoon. Thank you
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Last night I pulled the throttle body and cleaned it out, just minimal amounts of carbon nothing significant, cleaned the map/t, traced all hoses and wires they’re good. I was about to start working on it again and the map/t sensor I ordered yesterday afternoon from Can Am parts guy showed up next day air and I didn’t even pay the $40 extra for next day! Always an excellent experience dealing with them. I also adjusted the valves they were out of spec some too. Now I’m going to put it all together and I’ll take another run and check fuel pressure under load. New spark plug should be here sometime today as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 · (Edited)
Im pretty confused at this point. I adjusted valves, fuel pressure is spot on under load, fuel is flowing large volume up to the injector, cleaned injector, installed new MAP/T sensor, blew out all vent lines and ran without check valve or filter on fuel vent, installed new spark plug, completely drained fuel tank and added new non ethanol gas with seafoam, checked all wires and hoses, removed old fuel controller thinking it was bad and installed new Bom controller, ran it stock with no controller, air intake has zero obstructions air box is clean with brand new properly oiled uni filter, high flow custom exhaust so its not a spark arrestor issue, checked cylinder pressure, did a leak down test, tested for spark, etc. Idle is fine, acceleration is ok but hard to tell with it falling flat on its face so early, and some other things Im leaving out im sure.

Maybe I am just extremely new and ignorant to CVTs, but I initially completely ruled it out because of the sequence my problems started occurring and the parts I replaced so far.

To recap, about a month and half ago after riding maybe 45min to an hr I took off from a stop and could tell the power wasnt there down low but when it got up to 35-40 mph there was a vibration I could feel in the foot boards and my speed topped around 40 with initial flattening of rpms around 5500/5600. From there it would slowly creep and pick up speed but very slowly. The next day it ran fine and had full power but for the next week intermittently power would be reduced and always a top speed of 40mph with rpms around 5500/5600 then creep from there. Some days were alot better than others then it became an everyday thing and always had those symptoms. During this period nothing had changed. 28" zillas had been on there over 9 months and always had great power with the 32" tire secondary spring and helix and top speed was about 54 mph, which it got to fairly quickly for what it is. I assumed it had to be CVT related and thought slipped belt, but I also questioned it because I figured a slipped belt would have caused revving without movement instead of bogging of rpms flattening out at 5500. So I guess 5500 became my new shift out. I already had a Gates G Force belt that had identical dimensions as stock, so I installed it one day and it had zero effect and the same issues continued.

Fast forward a few weeks and replaced some parts and figured it had to be something simple since its a 2020 with 60 hours and 250 miles roughly, and hoped one of the new parts might resolve my issue. So I replace the air filter with a uni filter, did all the work I mentioned above, installed a new CVTech primary, re-installed the Gates belt that has maybe 5 miles on it but installed the stock secondary spring, re-used the red helix from the 32" tire kit (was told by dealer I bought primary from it may produce good results), currently have the stock helix installed and have removed the secondary twice and reinstalled just to make sure I wasnt making a simple oversight.

I noticed when I pulled the red helix from secondary that the wear marks were significant and same on the inner sheave where it contacts the helix. That is when I decided to go back to the stock helix with no change. My engagement is around 2200 rpms and shift out is 5500-5600 I guess. What I dont know is whether my shift out is 5500 or if I have a fuel/ computer issue that limits the rpm and is controlling that. If this happened after the new primary install I would assume it was the setup but even then I havent seen anyone else have a shift out that drastically low when the clutches just werent set right. The low end seems to have power now but it gets to a lull point so fast it doesnt seem like it was prior to having issues. At this point Im starting to second guess if things are in my head or remember what it ran like at full potential with the 32" kit and the 28s.

Leading up to the issue/s:

-No modifications to clutch or increase in tire size
-Had been very busy getting house ready to sell so bike had been ridden regularly, but mostly on roads and easy trails by my house. It had not been submerged or had any water enter the engine ever and the CVT had not been submerged for 6 months.
-Never been swamped as far as engine is concerned. Swamped the CVT once right after I bought it but its been snorkeled ever since.

Immediate observations and action after issues:
-Removed CVT cover and replaced the belt with Gates G Force. CVT had light belt dust but it had been months since it was opened last.
  • Stock filter was mildly dirty but nothing concerning. Replaced with properly oiled Uni filter.
  • Began ordering parts and replacing with no luck so far.

This is a brief video hitting WOT and going nowhere fast. As you can see the belt never rides all the way up on the primary and vice versa for secondary.

 
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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
This run was after valve adjustments and stock helix put back in. Started in high gear and went WOT except letting off briefly. After I stopped I switched to low. Also, NVMD the snorkel pcs with electrical tape holding screens on them.
 
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Baffling...... not your muffler baffling, lol, the results of those videos. You can clearly hear the bike "buhhhhh" just struggling to get the rpm up. Thing needs a viagra :p

I can only think you've got an A/F ratio issue at this point, which you shouldn't, but the bike's not spark-missing, its just either starving for fuel or it's getting too much, likely the former rather than the latter. There's no adjustable timing map on these things, so that's off the table, gotta be lean, somehow. Fuel pressure and injector have been cleared, so it seems to come down to a pulse width issue, the injector isn't being told to stay open, but the "new" MAP/T shouldn't be replicating the old ones behavior.

Man, I'm clueless. Is there an ATV dyno w/wideband anywhere near you?
 

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do those have any knock sensor that would cause it to reduce timing if it thought it had bad gas? If so maybe the sensor is bad
during the period that it was going from normal to reduced power, did it do this during run cycles or go back to normal after a restart and then go bad during the run or on restart switch to reduced power?
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Baffling...... not your muffler baffling, lol, the results of those videos. You can clearly hear the bike "buhhhhh" just struggling to get the rpm up. Thing needs a viagra :p

I can only think you've got an A/F ratio issue at this point, which you shouldn't, but the bike's not spark-missing, its just either starving for fuel or it's getting too much, likely the former rather than the latter. There's no adjustable timing map on these things, so that's off the table, gotta be lean, somehow. Fuel pressure and injector have been cleared, so it seems to come down to a pulse width issue, the injector isn't being told to stay open, but the "new" MAP/T shouldn't be replicating the old ones behavior.

Man, I'm clueless. Is there an ATV dyno w/wideband anywhere near you?
Ill have to try and look it up. If I sent the ECU to get reflashed, would they be able to see what the potential issue is when they were in it flashing it and atleast then Id have some info to go on? Im really avoiding taking this to the dealer I dont feel like having them waste my time and take shots in the dark. Im not sure about the ATV dyno Ill have to look that up and see.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
do those have any knock sensor that would cause it to reduce timing if it thought it had bad gas? If so maybe the sensor is bad
during the period that it was going from normal to reduced power, did it do this during run cycles or go back to normal after a restart and then go bad during the run or on restart switch to reduced power?
I believe it was mostly after it was cut off and started back up. Im trying to remember but cant 100%.
 

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Ill have to try and look it up. If I sent the ECU to get reflashed, would they be able to see what the potential issue is when they were in it flashing it and atleast then Id have some info to go on? Im really avoiding taking this to the dealer I dont feel like having them waste my time and take shots in the dark. Im not sure about the ATV dyno Ill have to look that up and see.
Not to my knowledge, no. Those ECU reflashers just work with the ECM out of the bike, paperweight-style. They'll plug into it and just overwrite the maps n such.

What I'm wanting to know is if you can get your bike, running, on an ATV dyno, with a wideband O2 sensor, for running/tuning purposes. I'm even leery that approach will yield answers, cause you just blindly richening your tuner should accomplish the same thing via seat of the pants, then you'd at least know you're on the right track. I just can't see your bike being so lean as to need that much enrichment, but that O2 sensor would tell you what your A/F ratios are at WOT, that'll definitively answer your "is it too lean? too rich?" question.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
Not to my knowledge, no. Those ECU reflashers just work with the ECM out of the bike, paperweight-style. They'll plug into it and just overwrite the maps n such.

What I'm wanting to know is if you can get your bike, running, on an ATV dyno, with a wideband O2 sensor, for running/tuning purposes. I'm even leery that approach will yield answers, cause you just blindly richening your tuner should accomplish the same thing via seat of the pants, then you'd at least know you're on the right track. I just can't see your bike being so lean as to need that much enrichment, but that O2 sensor would tell you what your A/F ratios are at WOT, that'll definitively answer your "is it too lean? too rich?" question.
I think im going to order the A/F sensor from Bom. Jeff recommended it when we were having the conversation about the new controller. Ive made sure to record the parameters hes set so I dont get lost from them, but Ive only gone up a couple bumps in each zone and reduced the transitions marginally so far. I didnt go further thinking it couldnt be that far out so I didnt want to keep adding.
 

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Has your blinky box controller always been in the loop of did you remove it completely and run it

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
Has your blinky box controller always been in the loop of did you remove it completely and run it

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk
I’ve put it back to stock without it all together and replaced it with a BOM
 

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I’ve put it back to stock without it all together and replaced it with a BOM
ive had the screens on snorkel give me grief.. i cut them out of my tips they restricted my air flow and really bogged my bike down ..they were ok new but once dirty that mirco screen hard to get the flow they had once they were new. ill never put them in my snorkels definite power loss for me.. try taking main intake screen off ..see what happens
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
ive had the screens on snorkel give me grief.. i cut them out of my tips they restricted my air flow and really bogged my bike down ..they were ok new but once dirty that mirco screen hard to get the flow they had once they were new. ill never put them in my snorkels definite power loss for me.. try taking main intake screen off ..see what happens
They’re only on there because I have the risers off and didn’t want bugs or debris sucking in. I don’t run them when the snorkel risers are on.

So I didn’t check the pressure under load over the weekend like a jack ass bc I just really didn’t think that was it and although it was in the back of my mind I just never put the gauge on when I’d run down the road. I remember to do it when I got home since it had just been brought to my attention and as soon as I fire it up the pump is netting 48/49 psi. Quick trip down the road and 47-49 psi. I’ve checked the fuel pressure on 2 separate occasions and video’d the results at 51/52psi plain as day, and as soon as it’s cranked today it’s obviously low. 🤦🏻‍♂️ It irritates me but also feel a huge relief. Although the trouble I’ve had with it at this point I can see putting a new fuel pump on and it not resolving anything lol.
 

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so ever since you swamped the cvt its been giving you problems? sounds like maybe you have damaged the secondary? you mentioned some significant wear your clutches should be in like new condition especially considering its a new bike other wise you have big issues. your down to major engine problems or something seriously wrong with clutches . it raises a big flag for me when you say significant wear if that secondary not performing properly you can have the issue your having. by listening to your video to me sounds like someone shifting their bike to early. and bogging it down....your clutches are playing tug of war it maybe your secondary Since you changed the primary..
 
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