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2020 Outlander 450
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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
I did buy a new torque gear which had some wear and retaining ring. Going to buy a new helix as well but haven’t had time with the other issues to even begin digging into helix angles and the effects they have or if I should just remain stock helix. The secondary sheaves look perfectly fine, although I do need to measure bushing ID. Only swamped once 9 months prior to this starting. Cleaned it meticulously and no issues water or dust in it since.

edit: this also started before I changed the primary
 

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I did buy a new torque gear which had some wear and retaining ring. Going to buy a new helix as well but haven’t had time with the other issues to even begin digging into helix angles and the effects they have or if I should just remain stock helix. The secondary sheaves look perfectly fine, although I do need to measure bushing ID. Only swamped once 9 months prior to this starting. Cleaned it meticulously and no issues water or dust in it since.

edit: this also started before I changed the primary
operation:
This is from my conversation with a friend who was helping me set my clutches.
I run a 40/32 Helix One benefit of the dual helix is that it will shift out faster off the line giving acceleration. But then when in the meat of power at speed, allow higher rpm to be a peak power.


shift out rpm is set with the primary.
(along with engagement rpm)

shift curve is set with the seconday.
(along with power transfer efficiency and belt squeeze)

Adjusting clutch to 8000 is no big deal. PROVIDED the proper helix angle is being used.
If wrong helix is being used, it will force you to take too much weight out of primary.

Clutches tug of war each other. The tugging of the primary upshifts. The tugging of the secondary downshifts. The helix plays role in both backshifting, upshifting and downshiftiing.

Just follow:
Set primary for rpm wanted / needed.
Set secondary for proper belt pinch or not too much. If primary slips, secondary is tugging too hard. If secondary slips, its not tugging hard enough.
 

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2020 Outlander 450
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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
operation:
This is from my conversation with a friend who was helping me set my clutches.
I run a 40/32 Helix One benefit of the dual helix is that it will shift out faster off the line giving acceleration. But then when in the meat of power at speed, allow higher rpm to be a peak power.


shift out rpm is set with the primary.
(along with engagement rpm)

shift curve is set with the seconday.
(along with power transfer efficiency and belt squeeze)

Adjusting clutch to 8000 is no big deal. PROVIDED the proper helix angle is being used.
If wrong helix is being used, it will force you to take too much weight out of primary.

Clutches tug of war each other. The tugging of the primary upshifts. The tugging of the secondary downshifts. The helix plays role in both backshifting, upshifting and downshiftiing.

Just follow:
Set primary for rpm wanted / needed.
Set secondary for proper belt pinch or not too much. If primary slips, secondary is tugging too hard. If secondary slips, its not tugging hard enough.
Thanks for the information. Some of that I knew, some I didn’t. This is the first bike I’ve ever had with CVT and was forced into a sport utility by my wife who wanted something “family friendly”. I absolutely hated it at first and thought the CVT was the biggest b***** move id ever made but they fascinate me now and they’ve really grown on me. It is really nice when I’m holding my daughter and just puttin around and at this point I don’t think I’d want a foot shift if I had to do it over, I don’t even think I regret the 450 I’ve cut it up and modified it and have done just about every significant mod I wanted to, with the exception of the motor swap.

Btw what would cause this fuel pump to go bad or do I have another area i need to be looking? Already ordering a new pump so cut the filter screen open drained the fuel and everything is clean and I think I’m going to just buy a new injector I’m tired of troubleshooting this.

102461

102462
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They’re only on there because I have the risers off and didn’t want bugs or debris sucking in. I don’t run them when the snorkel risers are on.

So I didn’t check the pressure under load over the weekend like a jack ass bc I just really didn’t think that was it and although it was in the back of my mind I just never put the gauge on when I’d run down the road. I remember to do it when I got home since it had just been brought to my attention and as soon as I fire it up the pump is netting 48/49 psi. Quick trip down the road and 47-49 psi. I’ve checked the fuel pressure on 2 separate occasions and video’d the results at 51/52psi plain as day, and as soon as it’s cranked today it’s obviously low. 🤦🏻‍♂️ It irritates me but also feel a huge relief. Although the trouble I’ve had with it at this point I can see putting a new fuel pump on and it not resolving anything lol.
Those numbers all sound within spec for fuel system PSI, what numbers are you recording that are "obviously low"?

If you do go ahead and replace the pump, make sure to check out Quantum's offering, if you aren't aware of them already
 

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2020 Outlander 450
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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
Those numbers all sound within spec for fuel system PSI, what numbers are you recording that are "obviously low"?

If you do go ahead and replace the pump, make sure to check out Quantum's offering, if you aren't aware of them already
I didnt explain that clearly. The two previous times I tested it the numbers were good. After talking to Cody Sorrell for about half hour last night he told me that the only thing left basically is pump, injector, or ECU. He highly doubted it was ECU or injector and although the test were seemingly good to pressure test again and try it under load and let him know. This time I swapped gauges because the one I had been testing with somehow developed a crack in the glass and as soon as I fired it up with the new gauge it showed 48/49, as soon as I cut it off it would start losing pressure slowly, and at WOT it would jump to high 20s and be in the 30s and up to 40s again but was all over the place. I was going to buy a pump and install it myself but after talking to him Im going to make the 3.5 hr trip to drop the bike off with him so he can do some more to it. Hes going to resolve the fuel issue, remove the brand new BOM controller with less than an hour of run time on it and replace it with a PCV, reflash it removing the reverse limiter, raise rpm limiters/ speed limiter, lower fan set point, and advance the timing, and put a cam in it. We havent worked out all of the details yet, but this should hold me over until I can do the motor swap that will be atleast a year down the road.
 

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I was going to buy a pump and install it myself but after talking to him Im going to make the 3.5 hr trip to drop the bike off with him so he can do some more to it. Hes going to resolve the fuel issue, remove the brand new BOM controller with less than an hour of run time on it and replace it with a PCV, reflash it removing the reverse limiter, raise rpm limiters/ speed limiter, lower fan set point, and advance the timing, and put a cam in it.
Screen Shot 2021-05-04 at 4.17.21 PM.png


:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 ·

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I made the quick disconnect with parts I had at home from pneumatic quick disconnect fittings. I figured if it leaked or gas caused it to go bad I would remove but so far it hasnt leaked a drop
If that is a quick disconnect for air supply then the o ring might swell if it is exposed to gas. A swollen o ring would not leak but might restrict flow enough to starve the injectors at some point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
If that is a quick disconnect for air supply then the o ring might swell if it is exposed to gas. A swollen o ring would not leak but might restrict flow enough to starve the injectors at some point.
I removed the quick connect all together and just screwed the gauge into the tee
 

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Discussion Starter · #71 ·
Does anyone make a marginally larger radiator by now that is more efficient? I searched and found old threads where it was discussed and some guys having custom ones made, but has anyone followed through and offer them? Also if not, what a preferred oem equivalent brands without going to cheap quality? Like everything searches for the 450 come up with nothing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #72 ·
Update for anyone still invested. After new map/t, new spark plug, new fuel pump consistent at 51psi, cleaned injector, new fuel controller with problem also occurring back to stock with no fuel controller...problem still occurs and will not build rpms over mid 6s and top speed is 38-40 mph. Seems like the only thing left is buy a new injector or it being an ecm issue? The guy that I had lined up to troubleshoot it and do the cam won’t respond anymore, even though he’s very reputable, so I’m back to square one figuring this thing out on my own. Same symptoms as first post, none of this started as a result of swamping it. It just started out of nowhere.
 

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..........

I'm out of what I'd consider "rational" ideas, at this point.

Is the rear brake caliper dragging?

And we did at some point, confirm it's a power generation issue, and not a power delivery issue, right? Will the bike rev clean in neutral/park? In other words, something weird in the clutches isn't preventing max rpm/speed
 
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Discussion Starter · #74 ·
..........

I'm out of what I'd consider "rational" ideas, at this point.

Is the rear brake caliper dragging?

And we did at some point, confirm it's a power generation issue, and not a power delivery issue, right? Will the bike rev clean in neutral/park? In other words, something weird in the clutches isn't preventing max rpm/speed
The bike does rev clean in neutral it seems. Somewhere around page 3 I started to consider maybe it was the clutch and it was acting in a way I didnt expect which made me ignore it. Leading up to this issue, however, nothing on the clutch was changed or altered and hadnt been sunk. I put a new belt on it exact dimensions of the stock belt and it didnt make a difference. I then put the cvtech primary in and changed back to the stock helix and secondary spring and it didnt make a difference. In one of the videos you could hear it bog noticeably when the RPMs flatten out and it wont go any more. The new pump showed 51 psi under load and at idle revving up. The only thing I can think of is replace the injector and after that look at the ECM.

I am going to install the PCV and Autotune module in tonight so hopefully that will give me some insight once I can see AFR.
 

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The only thing I can think of is replace the injector and after that look at the ECM.
I'd be floored if those were problematic on such a new machine
 

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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
I would be too, but I cant come up with anything to save my life. Aside from taking it somewhere, which I cant find anyone that I trust or that can even look at it for more than a month and just refuse to let a dealer keep it for months playing a guessing game and getting one over on me. I really hope the AFR will give me a direction once I hook the PC stuff up.
 
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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
There is no update on my issue, other than out of curiosity I put the new torque gear in the secondary which eliminated alot of play that developed after parts started noticeably wearing. I wonder if the stock secondary is playing catch up really bad with the cvtech and 30s and is just causing it to wear down parts that have friction against one another. I never had wear on the helix or torque ring like this until I installed the cvtech and 30s. The main problem at hand began prior to the clutch wear, however. Hopefully I have that issue resolved I just ordered a STM secondary, and unrelated also ordered the camshaft. Im hoping tonight Ill have time to install the PCV and check the AFR.
 

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Discussion Starter · #78 ·
I actually do have something to mention. Last night I cranked it up and had a new issue arise. I changed the fuel pump sunday and it cranked right up no problems after the install. 51 psi and held there. When I cranked it up last night it studdered like it wasnt going to crank then idled pretty rough like it may cut off at any moment. It also puffed a small amount whiteish grey colored smoke while it was struggling to idle. I shut it down and took a look around waited about 5 seconds and then started it again and it fired up like normal with no hesitation. Still not getting any top speed or rpms out of it, but this is the first time it has ever done that.
 
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