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Just got my pipe in the mail from VForceJohn, add me to the list. Haven't installed yet but i am super happy about my purchase and excited as hell to put it on. thanks John!
 

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How much for full exhaust g1?
 

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Discussion Starter #26
How much for full exhaust g1?

I have Full Black Muzzy in stock for the g1 800's. 600.00


1024-00007 is the part # which retails for 730.00 from Muzzy.

Go ahead and search the internet...You won't find them cheaper and IN STOCK anywhere else. :th_smiliethumbsup:

I have 3 in stock as of today.

I also have Black Slipon 295.00 for the g-1 and Tuner is 225.00
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Can you give me a price on a full pipe black
And a slip on for a 13 renegade 1000
Thanks
My prices are as follows

Full Muzzy Black Duals 750.00 (retail 895.00)
Muzzy Dual slipon Black 525.00 (retail is 675.00)

My prices are as low as they can get, that's why I cannot advertise them on my website or other dealers get pissed.

This is why I'm the #1 Muzzy exhaust offroad dealer in the WORLD!!!! (according to Muzzy):thumbsmilie:

John
 

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John, maybe you can help, as you've discussed a full system on a Gen1 Xmr....

I've got an Outty Xxc - with the factory CVT intake snorkle but with the Xmr CVT exhaust... Does the fully Muzzy system interfere with the Xmr CVT exhaust?

I already have a Muzzy slip on - and am now contemplating getting the remainder of the full system in hopes of alleviating some Reversion issues due to MrRpm drop in cams - Even Steve and the Tune Monster hasn't been able to fix it - and a full exhaust was one of Steve's suggestions.....

Thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter #33
There is a full exhaust for the g1 MAX and XMR, however, the XMR snorkels interfere.

and just so you know, the slipon will not fit the Muzzy headers for the full system (same can though). so you'd have to buy the whole thing.

Explain what's happening with the cams??

are you getting a weak low end hit out of the hole with them installed (can't pop a wheelie as well) but then at 30 mph it's like a rocket. If so, I can tell you what to try and see if that works.

I dealt with this on the last cam setup I did with the reneged 800 with Mr RPM cams, it was just a little fuel map tinkering to fix it.

This is where the Autotune isn't that great without a full set of headers so you don't get poor a/f meter results, but dynotune and manual correction would cure it.

John
 

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There is a full exhaust for the g1 MAX and XMR, however, the XMR snorkels interfere.

and just so you know, the slipon will not fit the Muzzy headers for the full system (same can though). so you'd have to buy the whole thing.

Explain what's happening with the cams??

are you getting a weak low end hit out of the hole with them installed (can't pop a wheelie as well) but then at 30 mph it's like a rocket. If so, I can tell you what to try and see if that works.

I dealt with this on the last cam setup I did with the reneged 800 with Mr RPM cams, it was just a little fuel map tinkering to fix it.

This is where the Autotune isn't that great without a full set of headers so you don't get poor a/f meter results, but dynotune and manual correction would cure it.

John
Well that sucks at having to buy the whole thing.... What's a new one from you run shipped here on the east coast?

And yes, that's pretty much exactly what's happening with the cams. I had Steve log on and try to manually tune it - but I can still feel and hear the misfires down low to about 3,000 rpm.
 

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A full system helps because the unequal length stock head pipes compound the reversion issue associated with big cams.

If its not pulling good off idle or from low rpm when you nail the throttle you have a tune or clutching issue, period. There is nto a single situation where my rpm cams done shine over stock. EXCEPT, they do have a little reversion during steady state cruising at low throttle positions and rpm. Its just the nature of the beast with big cams. A good tune and aftermarket head pipes help big time. I got most of the reversion out of my machine, it cruises pretty dang smooth, but not quite perfect. Im going to do some more tuning and see if i can get all of the reversion out of it. Im running stock head pipes. What clutch set up are you running? Whats your shiftout?

All you have to do is adjust the target AFR for each cylinder at the spot where you are experiencing reversion and let autotune do its thing. Dont worry about what AFR you are commanding, just try different values and do whatever it takes to make it run as smooth as possible at the trouble spots.

Due to the way the monster stuff works (referencing up to 4 cells at once and interpolating between them) it is more effective to change the target afr and let autotune tune the fuel tables than it is to manually adjust them.
 

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Discussion Starter #36 (Edited)
Problem is. With reversion, you won't be getting a good AFR so autotune doesn't work all that well....

This is where a chassis dyno shines. as I can manually adjust the values and see what it takes to pick up power at that rpm, load and throttle position, You tune it in regardless of what the afr says.

All you do is lock the throttle at that specific point (which is usually about 10% throttle and 2500-3500 rpm) and gun It to that specific point and dyno to achieve the highest HP (which is about 18-23 rwhp at that throttle position). manually change the values about 5 points at a time until you see what directin you have to go to clear it up. and get it set where the power is the highest at that throttle position.

Autotune is great, but like I said...It doesn't always work like it says it does.

now, you'll have to spend more on pipes, 02 bungs, time to install, and retune, when that motor can actually be tuned in with exactly what you have on it....If you had a dyno and knew how to use it. I could have it tuned in under 2 hours doing it my way manually....You'll spend 3-4 days trying it their way and it still might not be 100%

John
 

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Outty, I am not sure who you are. But the first thing to check is that you have the proper afr target table for those cams. Call or email me anytime if you still have some tuning to do.

Reversion has nothing to do with how it is tuned. (human or machine) It is the target to tune to. It is not seen for wheelie power or throttle response, it is a steady cruise where a cylinder will miss.

Reversion is simply the exhaust gases getting back into intake and diluting the mixture on the next combustion event. And it is exactly as it sounds - an engine miss. There is not enough air for a complete combustion.

It is almost always a cause on #2 cylinder as it has a very straight intake tract and short header pipe. It is there stock, however you can only notice it during cold warmup, when its rich. Adding in late valve closing times with cams makes this much worse.

It is simple to fix and tune out. It is just a matter of adding in extra oxygen content to help promote burn. And once one cylinder fires after the other, the left over exhaust gas is alot from the opposite cylinder. This is no different than an EGR valve on a car. And tuning can be from 15-18 afr as OEMs do. Note: This is the exact reason why stock machines are not lean and most of the BS spread is from people who dont understand or just wanna sell something.

So proper tuning / Leaning the mixture is first.
If needed, adding ignition timing too. (stockers are between 45-52* here) Both leaner and diluted mixtures burn slower and need the advance to properly burn.
Changing the exhaust header length on #2 helps as well. It creates more of a vacuum to draw more spent charge out. As does larger header pipes help because the gases are slowed down, and any kind of lip on the outside promotes return gas restriction. Auto guys even have things called reversion cones.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Just like Steve said.

Increaced timing, and fuel trim adjustments and it can be lessened, but I'd doubt you'll get it all out of there.

It's nothing more than the I/E overlap causing this which is generally found in cams running more than 230-240 duration where for generally up to 30* of motor rotation the intake and exhaust are open at the same time.

I deal with this on the Kawasaki's and my camshafts I design for those. on FI machines what it does is cause a pressure wave into the intake tract and sends the MAP sensor into confused mode up to about 10 mph.

I have another guy that makes cams for Kawy's and claims he's the best, and when installed they will burble and crap out at speeds under 10 mph and very difficult to remove this reversion. He's running too much I/E overlap, so the Lobe centers have to be moved around to compensate for this. Carbed versions don't experience it as much, but FI it gets very tricky.

That's why I spent 8 months and $10,000.00 developing my Kawasaki cams to end this (and it picked up 6 rwhp over the best cam available and lowered peak HP range WHILE increasing HP)

This is nothing new. Try getting reversion out of a Boat manifold. My dad used to race Cigarette boats with 502's and blowers on them. great when you are floored, but no wake zones it'd suck water back into the exhaust and eventually it cracked an exhaust valve from it. He end up changing cams and loosing about 100hp but you could cruise and still run the legal water cooled manifolds instead of dry headers (which were insane loud).

John
 

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Yep, #2 cylinder - Steve, you are spot on for all of your post as to what we've discussed before. The changes you made are better - but being an obsessive compulsive perfectionist leaves me searching for the solution - and as discussed with you, different headers were a potential solution - so, that's why I'm in this thread, seeking information on them.

So, John, what's a full Muzzy system for a Gen 1 Outty Xxc run shipped? I looked on their site, but couldn't find the information on if the bungs were already there or not....?

John,
 

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For some reason, I missed both DSCZ71 and John's posts before Steve's. John's got it right as it's the idle to 3,000 rpm area that's the worse.

Mr. RPM Drop in cams - they are the first ones he came out with for the 800's. Airbox is modifed with 3-1" holes and 2-2" holes (all covered by frogskinz) as well as the Xmr intake snorkle Shift out is right at 8,000 rpm. Clutch is the CV-Tech - Non-Airdam modified. Exhaust is stock headpipes with a Muzzy slip-on.

And as John and Steve said, the reversion throws off the afr readings that Autotune makes adjustments from - false information, if you will.

Aside from a hope of removing reversion with the full system, how much is there to be gained by the system power wise? Will the dollar value due to investment cost outweigh driving 5 hours down to John's to have him manually tune it out on the dyno?
 
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