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Ahhh... looking closer at your pics, looks like It’s on the aft side of the jug, so the wetness I was looking at wouldn’t be from the tensioner.
That's right. Aft. The oil spray was landing on the gearbox mainly.
 

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I remember an old maxima I had that one day suddenly started suffering from that "dancing" knocking sound, freaked me out. Low mileage engine, too. Many calamity scenarios played through my mind while trying to figure out just wtf the racket was.

Ended up being a faulty spark plug, electrode disappeared/wore away, causing the spark to jump n dance all around the combustion chamber, looking for the shortest distance to ground. New $10 plug did the trick. Maybe it's the same thing going on with your bike
 

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Discussion Starter #63
Well, yesterday was a day full of disappointments around here! Not only did the Braves lose game 7 of the NLCS, but I also came to the conclusion that the engines most likely gonna have to come out of this beast. :(

Tried several things... we were able to get all of the old fuel out using a vacuum oil extractor that I use on my boat. Got it down to where the gauge was not reading any fuel and the light was flashing (I pulled the fuel pump fuse before we started so we wouldn’t fry the pump). Put some new 93 octane in, no help. I really thought it might be detonation related, not so lucky.

So then I used a long screwdriver to try to pinpoint about where the knock was coming from. It appears to be on the aft side, heaviest in the cylinder area.

That lead me to looking into the wet spot on the head pictured earlier, it was around the spark plug. Thought that was odd, especially since there was oil inside the boot and even on the contact. I had bought plugs, so I figured I’d clean the boot up and change the plug. The old plug was a little loose, which explains the oil. It didn’t look terribly bad, a little dark but not fouled. Started it up for the hell of it, even though I knew it wasn’t going to change anything... it didn’t.

Going off MontanaCanAm’s suggestion, I had picked up some 30w oil while I was out, so I figured I’d give that a shot. I pulled the drain plug, and it fell into the pan ( just like last time), so I had to fish it out. I had on black rubber gloves, and when I pulled it out I noticed some shiny sparkly stuff on my finger. I thought, ooooh... pretty. NOT!!! I hadn’t dumped the pan yet, so it still had the original oil in it, and filter. After seeing the filings, I ran my finger across the bottom of the pan... looks I’ve been panning for silver! :rolleyes: Lots of very fine filings in the bottom of it.

At that point, I decided it was best to just be done for the night. Cleaned up my tools, popped a cold one and fired up the grill. I did fill it back up with oil though. 😆 I’m dreading pulling the engine, there’s so much crammed into these bikes it’s crazy. I’ve done several top ends, mainly on Yamaha’s, but they’ve all been carbureted and had a lot less to deal with. Not sure if I’m dealing with something in the top end on this one, or if it’s rod/crank related... we’ll see.

I’m going to drain the oil out of the pan and keep the filings in there... I’ll post a pic.



D
 

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Discussion Starter #64
I remember an old maxima I had that one day suddenly started suffering from that "dancing" knocking sound, freaked me out. Low mileage engine, too. Many calamity scenarios played through my mind while trying to figure out just wtf the racket was.

Ended up being a faulty spark plug, electrode disappeared/wore away, causing the spark to jump n dance all around the combustion chamber, looking for the shortest distance to ground. New $10 plug did the trick. Maybe it's the same thing going on with your bike

It really seemed like a detonation issue to me, especially the way it would come and go. I may have to look into the plug and wire a little more before I go pulling things apart, but the filings in the oil worry me. I don’t know what a first oil change looks like on these, and I’m not sure if this is the first change. I know it had an OEM filter in it, but that doesn’t mean much.
 

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PO could've sunk it/swamped it, and just flushed the bottom end instead of splitting the cases and cleaning all the crap out, which proceeded to tear up the bottom end bearings. It'd be nice if I was wrong, but yeah, that's a lot of shiny....
 

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It really seemed like a detonation issue to me, especially the way it would come and go. I may have to look into the plug and wire a little more before I go pulling things apart, but the filings in the oil worry me. I don’t know what a first oil change looks like on these, and I’m not sure if this is the first change. I know it had an OEM filter in it, but that doesn’t mean much.
My initial oil change was very positive. I could find nothing in the filter, and only light metal on the magnetic plug, and the oil was black, so I guess it was conventional oil.

I don't envy you in having to pull the engine. It does not look easy by any means. If I had to do something like this I would go all the way, and just about strip the entire bike. Clean, paint, inspect, repair, replace everything I found that I did not trust a 100%. Get all that stuff out of the way and removing the engine should look simple in comparison.

On the one hand it is getting cold, and we are in the middle of a pandemic. What better excuse to shelter in the garage and wait it all out. And as the leaves and flowers begin to bloom your shiny perfect running bike will be ready to terrorize the neighborhood.
 

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Didn’t have much time yesterday with the tail end of the storm heading our way. The bike wouldn’t go into park when I got it (that worried me) and it has absolutely no brakes. Battery was dead, but the deal was good and I was buying it basically site unseen... so I can’t complain. After a new battery, a little tweaking on the shift rod, some pressure washing and 1/4 of a bottle of HEET fuel drier... here’s where she stands now. This was taken about 30 mins before a tornado touched down about 2 miles from us. 😐


I haven't listened to this since you first posted it >7 days ago. WTF? It sounded great then. I just can't wrap my head around what might have happened since then. It will be interesting to follow this and learn what the hell happened.
 

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Discussion Starter #68
I know, it’s crazy! Although, that was it just idling. I did mention it had a knock that I noticed at higher RPM’s. I’m not sure why it’s gotten this bad, it all started when it shut itself down and wouldn’t crank. I was thinking it was heat related but not sure. Bomb said he didn’t think they would shut themselves off due to heat, really wish they had a temp indicator. After that, it sounded terrible. :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #69
The fan does work, not sure about the control circuit though. I jumpered the relay socket, it blows hard.
 

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Might've been an oil pressure/lubrication issue that shut it off, not coolant temp-related.....
 

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Discussion Starter #71
I was thinking something along those lines too... or possibly the coolant not reaching that cylinder. It has green coolant in it, does anyone know if that’s the way they came in ‘13? My ’21 has the orange coolant, just wondering if the PO changed the coolant for some reason and didn’t bleed the system properly after.
 

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I don't think BRP used green in that bike, no.

But just to reiterate/clarify, there is no shutdown protection on these bikes, coolant or oil or otherwise. Limp home mode doesn't kill the bike to protect it, so even if you had a massive air pocket against the coolant temp sensor, it wouldn't shut the engine off. My concern is mechanical in nature, that the shavings and filings in the oil bound the bearings against the crank and physically seized the motor. At an idle RPM, it's plausible.....
 

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Discussion Starter #73
Finally got around to cleaning it up enough to dig in deeper (or so I thought). After talking with a buddy at work about it, I was convinced I was dealing with a bad tensioner on the aft cylinder like y’all mentioned. I assumed it was allowing the chain to slap to wear in to the guides and jug. Especially since the metal filings I’ve found are non-ferrous, so I was assuming aluminum.

Pulling the heat shield was a PIA! After getting it off, I could see that the aft tensioner was dry, no leaks. Everything looked good externally except for the remaining dirt. I can’t believe there was still dirt after the amount of time I spent pressure washing it with the plastics off.

I finally got the 4 bolts off of the valve cover and finagled it around enough to get it and the gasket out of the way to allow me to look at the tensioner and guides. Here’s some pics, they look good to me with the exception of the crap that fell in while fighting the valve cover. Here’s a couple pics I took with my boroscope.





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Discussion Starter #74
After looking at these a little closer, almost looks like the aft guide could be broke/cracked.



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I was thinking something along those lines too... or possibly the coolant not reaching that cylinder. It has green coolant in it, does anyone know if that’s the way they came in ‘13? My ’21 has the orange coolant, just wondering if the PO changed the coolant for some reason and didn’t bleed the system properly after.
My 12 came with green coolant
 

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In those recent pictures, what you are seeing escapes me. IF it is the cam chain tensioner, wouldn't the chain be loose to your touch? And if what I know from the past applies here, a cam chain tensioner does not relax -- rather it applies tension steadily while running, afterwards and in between. A noisy cam chain would be consistently noisy hot or cold.

I didn't want to say before, cause it is just a WAG, but a compression test would tell a lot. Broken ring(s) would account for the excessive metal in the pan, noisy cool running, that could be mitigated with the piston expanding and filling the gap. I would also expect there to be oil burning -- not sure if you mentioned that.
 

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Discussion Starter #78
It’s not the tensioner... although I was hoping it was. The tensioner appears to be intact and doing its job. The only thing I noticed, other than the crap that got in there when I was wrestling the valve cover, was the very end of the aft chain guide looks broke/chipped.

As for the compression test, I didn’t go that route early on because it does run and doesn’t smoke at all. I can pull my tester out and check it though. Hopefully the front plug will be more accessible with everything I’ve removed.
 

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Discussion Starter #79
Here’s what I was referring to in the pics...

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Discussion Starter #80
I found this pic online, but I’m pretty sure it’s the old style chain guides. I wasn’t sure if mine was supposed to have the ears on the sides like this one does or not.


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