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Discussion Starter #101
Hopefully I'll have this installed by this time next week... we'll see how it goes time wise. :rolleyes:


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New piston&rings too? In this far I'd get everything that moves refreshed or replaced. From the looks of the engine this machine was buried in a mud pit and then abused to death.
 

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Discussion Starter #105
New piston&rings too? In this far I'd get everything that moves refreshed or replaced. From the looks of the engine this machine was buried in a mud pit and then abused to death.
We'll see, but from what I briefly looked at this morning (before having to get ready for work) everything looked good top end wise when I pulled the heads/jugs.

The bad thing is, if I go down the road of pistons/rings, then I know I'll end up going with an 840 kit. From what I've researched, it becomes a pretty slippery slop investment wise. The BBK is cheap... but then I'd need an ECU, pay to have it married to the bike, get a tuner and/or a tune, exhaust with bungs, clutch work, a new helix, and I'm sure there's more. If it were carbureted, it'd be more tempting... just rejet/make some adjustments and go.

We'll see what I find when I get time to take a good look at everything. I know the #1 cylinder looked good, I did take a minute to look it over due to all of the piston slap threads I found. If anything looks off though, it'll most likely be getting the 840 upgrade. There's not much available cylinder wise out there for 650's. I just really don't want to deal with all of the ECU/tune crap right now.
 

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Glad to hear you are making progress and I hope things are simpler going forawrd. Hopefully you don't need the 840 kit, but it would be a nice upgrade if needed since you're already there.
 

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but then I'd need an ECU, pay to have it married to the bike, get a tuner and/or a tune, exhaust with bungs, clutch work, a new helix, and I'm sure there's more.

I'm really interested in an open discourse between people that are more "in the know" than me, regarding your comments, because in my "simple" Can-Am ECU familiar mind, I don't think most of that is critically essential, to running an 840 kit on your/my 650. I'm trying to separate what's necessary from what additionally would optimize the setup. Stage/stagger the investment, in other words.

Bottom line we know you'd need more fuel to balance the additional air. Will a tuner modifying the MAP/T sensor suffice? Is there enough pulse width left in the 650 injectors to run an 840 kit? I honestly don't know. If someone says it can/has/will, then you could theoretically setup a one-time tune/dyno trip, just to confirm or optimize your tuner settings, and be done/riding/ripping/enjoying it for awhile.

Clutch work is always subjective, to an extent, and then perhaps necessary after that. What I mean is, we all upsize our tires without addressing the clutching, and the bikes still perform. I can't help but think going from a 650 to an 840bbk wouldn't require clutching- at least- not right away. That could come down the road, if you find it needed.

Exhaust- again- not critical, I don't think. Hell the 650 and the 850 might be the same part numbers, for all I know. We all advise richening these bikes before doing a muffler, that's telling me the exhaust isn't a power-limiting factor

Not trying to sound cheap or corner-cutting, I'm all about people enjoying their rides and spending their money smartly. If/when I find myself in your position, I will more than likely do an 840BBK and address the injector pulse width/flow issue, and ride. Figure out as I go, what additionally is necessary for optimal performance.
 

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I'm with Big_D, that he has enough on his plate. Dealing with a tuner or having the ECU reprogrammed, a bunch of other possibles and unknowns, eeeeehhh...

I think I remember him saying that this 2nd bike was for his kid. Get it running, sooner the better, the kid will be happy, Dad's a hero.
 

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I'm with Big_D, that he has enough on his plate. Dealing with a tuner or having the ECU reprogrammed, a bunch of other possibles and unknowns, eeeeehhh...

I think I remember him saying that this 2nd bike was for his kid. Get it running, sooner the better, the kid will be happy, Dad's a hero.
That and I'd rather have my kid riding a 650 than an 840. Plenty of torque and HP come out of that 650 rotax engine.
 
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Discussion Starter #110
I'm really interested in an open discourse between people that are more "in the know" than me, regarding your comments, because in my "simple" Can-Am ECU familiar mind, I don't think most of that is critically essential, to running an 840 kit on your/my 650. I'm trying to separate what's necessary from what additionally would optimize the setup. Stage/stagger the investment, in other words.

I would love to know as well. I've done a lot of reading, and it's still very muddy to me as to what "has" to be done ECU/tune wise to get one going. Most of the posts I found started off with the OP looking to do the upgrade themselves, but they end up taking to someone and paying them to do it. I'm sure there's got to be some solid info out there, just haven't had the time to track it down.
 

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Discussion Starter #111 (Edited)
I'm with Big_D, that he has enough on his plate. Dealing with a tuner or having the ECU reprogrammed, a bunch of other possibles and unknowns, eeeeehhh...

I think I remember him saying that this 2nd bike was for his kid. Get it running, sooner the better, the kid will be happy, Dad's a hero.

That and I'd rather have my kid riding a 650 than an 840. Plenty of torque and HP come out of that 650 rotax engine.
I was pretty much in the same mindset on both views! My son isn't young though, he's actually 19... which honestly scares me even more! lol

Here's a crazy unplanned shot that's fitting for the conversation... his 2SS 1LE Camaro sitting in front of the bike that'll be his. It was taken right before we started tearing the bike down. The kid loves power! You should see the awesome Jeep he gave up to get the Camaro, because it din't have enough power. :rolleyes:




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Discussion Starter #112
Bear in mind, he has a job and pays his own car payment/insurance... I just help find them and make them :cool:!


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Discussion Starter #113
Got the case split yesterday, I was hoping to get it rebuilt by today or tomorrow. Hit another roadblock though, I wasn’t liking the looks (or feel) of the main bearings, so I’m going to replace them. No since in taking chances at this point. Ordered new ones, now I’m at the mercy of the parts house and UPS as far as time goes. Hate it, I almost ordered them when I bought the crank and gasket set, now I wish I had. Oh well... another hurry up and wait.

Here’s some pics...

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Discussion Starter #115
I’ve been working other aspects of the bike too, not just the engine. Cleaned up the exhaust a little... didn’t realize the Muzzy was mostly aluminum.


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Discussion Starter #117
Oh, and a sneak peak at what’s to come... :cool:


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We'll see, but from what I briefly looked at this morning (before having to get ready for work) everything looked good top end wise when I pulled the heads/jugs.

The bad thing is, if I go down the road of pistons/rings, then I know I'll end up going with an 840 kit. From what I've researched, it becomes a pretty slippery slop investment wise. The BBK is cheap... but then I'd need an ECU, pay to have it married to the bike, get a tuner and/or a tune, exhaust with bungs, clutch work, a new helix, and I'm sure there's more. If it were carbureted, it'd be more tempting... just rejet/make some adjustments and go.

We'll see what I find when I get time to take a good look at everything. I know the #1 cylinder looked good, I did take a minute to look it over due to all of the piston slap threads I found. If anything looks off though, it'll most likely be getting the 840 upgrade. There's not much available cylinder wise out there for 650's. I just really don't want to deal with all of the ECU/tune crap right now.
Pcv with afr?

Monster must have something.

Ecu flash. MRRPM must have flash.
 

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Discussion Starter #120 (Edited)
Pcv with afr?

Monster must have something.

Ecu flash. MRRPM must have flash.
I called MrRPM a few days back, talked to a guy named Steven if I remember correctly. He told me all I’d need is the 800 or 840 kit and a PCV. I got a little excited until I started asking questions. The PCV will require being “tuned”. You can do it yourself, but you have to have a wideband and know what you’re doing. The other option is a PCV with an Autotune piggy backed onto it. You ride the bike and the Autotune will capture the data. You plug it into the pc, and the software will calculate the changes needed and send them to the PCV. This has to be done several times until it gets everything dialed in. Sounds easy enough, but the Autotune requires at least one O2 sensor which means at least one bung has to be added to the exhaust.
 
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