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Maybe bad injectors? It's a bit of a pain but you could pull them and see if they're shooting properly. I'm not sure if I missed it but the older machines were very well known to develop fuel pump issues and would run like crap when the PSI dropped below 50 so that might be something worth checking as a fuel pressure gauge is relatively inexpensive and nice to have for future troubleshooting.

Thats my first move to check the fuel pressure this afternoon. Mine is a 2020 and like you said Ive seen alot of issues with the 13 and older bikes with fuel pump but nothing after that really. Ive tried wording searches numerous ways but havent been able to find any answers. Ill probably pull injectors too, I had a GSXR 1000 a few years ago that wouldnt run when I bought it but it had been sitting a while. It was a 2006 with 4000 miles on it so i pulsed carb cleaner through the injectors off a 9v battery and it ran great. This one has never sat longer than a week so I wouldnt think thats it but I guess it could be if it got trash in the fuel.

 

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I had trouble before similar to what your going through I had a hmf fuel programer I took it off and the bike ran fine after that..try taking the programer off see what happens.

I was just texting my dad about that and wondering if the controller could be a potential problem. I added fuel and lowered the transition ranges but it didnt help or seem to have any change in performance at all and thought it could potentially be faulty. With the exhaust 2" piping to air box and uni filter I would it would be ridiculously lean once removed, but I guess I would quickly find out if that were the culprit and could go from there without riding it long enough to hurt it. Anyone have any experience with a 450 with a power commander? Im pretty sure nobody has any maps for it, but does it still allow it to be tuned correctly and obtain optimal AF ratio? Id rather not have to take it to have it tuned, especially since were talking about a 450. I was hoping to avoid that until I did the motor swap, or I guess I could just go back with another controller.

 

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I found with having problems with my bike I found it best to start with simple easy possible fixes first to narrow down the problem. But yes I recommend taking that tuner off it won't hurt the bike to see if it's the culprit ..I've never heard of them and it looks like my hmf one that was no good if I remember correctly it was faulty then I ordered the power commander.

I went to power commander after the hmf .. and yes the map problem the power commander worked good I was looking for more specific tunning.
I took it off and went with monster fuel injection and wow the bike came alive! With superb support from them I highly recommend them! I will put these on all my bikes! ECU Flash | Monster Fuel Injection

Thanks, I just shot them an email for additional info since there isnt much on their site.

 

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Update: i checked the fuel pressure and it’s around 49-50 psi. Upon closer inspection the controller isn’t sealed anymore the grommet at the wires was tilted so I wiggled it and it popped right out. I also drained the tank and all the gas was clean so I just went to get more fuel and some sea foam for good measure and I’m going to unplug the controller. I’m going with a flash over another controller so I can remove/raise the limiters, lower fan set points, etc. I’m pretty confident it’s the controller at this point

 

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Updating to see if I can get anymore ideas. I changed to a new BOM fuel controller and took the exhaust tips off and pulled the baffle insert out of the muffler. It was ridiculously clean no black carbon at all, which goes in line with the spark plug appearing to burn very lean. Prior to this issue I wasnt over heating or having any codes come up and I had the first controller on it for 9 months before this problem started. Nothing changed for this to occur but since Ive checked exhaust for obstructions, checked intake and installed uni filter, checked fuel pressure a second time it looked to be 51-52 psi in all throttle positions. I externally cleaned the radiator last night really well and went down the road and it feels like 3/4 power until 4000 rpms then sluggish 50% power to 5500 where it flatlines at 38/39 mph and slowly creeps up to 5800 rpms and maybe hits 42. All I keep hearing is tire size, clutches, thats what you get with a 450 and big tires...thats not it. It has a new primary and gates belt with no change. Been running 28x10s since 5 miles on it and 3/4 of that time with a 32" tire kit. The thing bogs and I believe runs out of fuel. Im going to check injector tonight along with all the vent hoses and take a look at the valve clearances. Everything Ive looked at so far has been clean though. It has around 28 hours and 130 miles on it and has never sat more than 3 or 4 days without being ran. Ideas on what else to check?

 

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Also meant to add that in neutral it revs slower than normal and hits rev limiter right at 7000 rpms.

 

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Did you try running the bike between fuel controllers? No fuel controller at all, in other words?

I can't see your MAP/T sensor being faulty on that new a machine, but it can't hurt to pull it and just check for any oily vapor film or dirt on it

I did not and it was my intention to try that, but Jeff got me the new controller in 2 days so I just installed the new one. I figured what are the odds two are bad so I kind of ruled that out. Should I still try that?

 

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The 450 is just a single cylinder

Yep just the single but what i notice when I hit the throttle and it "bogs", is a sound that literally sounds like the definition of a bog in my mind. its hard to explain but just goes blahhhhhh. Its really noticeable because of the snorkel that is 2" all the way to the airbox. The new controller cost me $300 to my door and Jeff obviously is renowned for setting the parameters on these things, but like you said I really think I have an issue with fuel supply aside from the blinky box. Like you keep swinging and missing but theres nobody throwing you balls to even hit. I dont know if it is because the ECU senses a fault that is limiting fuel and rev limiter, or if the lack of fuel is what is causing my problems. I thought off the top of my head rev limits were set to 8000 on mine ill have to look again, but if it is 8000 then the computer has changed the limit to 7000 and makes me lean toward computer issue, but i could be way off.

 

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I

Try taking tunner off see what happens simple and easy to try and take some Guess work out.. and go from there at least you can strike it of the list.

Ill check out the MAP/T and run it with the controller off. At this point Im not going to rule it out just because I think its highly unlikely. If it did run like it should with the controller off, what would that even be a result of? The ECU gone bad?

 

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does the engine sound fine other then bogging when on the throttle? If the ecu figures something wrong it will retard your timing and not allow full throttle ..not adjust your fuel from my understanding ..that being said I had similar symptoms on my bike but being I have two cylinders it was a little different but my main issue ended up being a bad ingintion coil wich from time time while riding especially under heavy load would miss fire in cylinder 2...wich the only way to test it was to swap it .... Also it didn't through code on dash from the misfire

So of you do what your saying check out your mapt and turn the controller off you'll be back to stock ecu settings correct?
If it runs fine back to normal that means there's something wrong with the tuner it self or the tune.. if no change in performance..
Check compression that will tell you about your valves or possible another issue in top end with out tearing it down...
If compression checks out
Valves good .

Now you run a after market belt it may be possible it'd a generic size not actually made to specifications for canam ..I personally have tried after markets but no success I recommend staying with the can am belts as I find them the best

if you wanted a better belt I went with the maverick belt it's higher temp( because of snorkels) rating and better quality then stock belt .(280-364) is the belt number..

If not before you tare the injectors out .. have you swamped this bike? Did get dirt in the tank.. one way to clog injectors would be to swamp it putting debree down the exhaust to your jugs this letting in crud.. it's hard to do that from the fuel tank since there is a fuel filter.. wich if there was junk in the tank could clog the filter..

I'm tryin lol keep posting your findings we'll get the gremlin..

Im running the Gates G Force belt now, but this problem began prior to putting that belt on and has continued. it was the same dimensionally I checked it prior to swapping. Ill check compression tonight as well. I really dont think the tuner is what is doing it seems like they would have different symptoms if both were bad or atleast not identical, especially since all it does is alter the parameters of the stock map. Going to try it anyway though. I had a thought earlier that I had forgotten about in detail and seems promising. I had a 2006 GSXR 1000 I bought in 2015 with only 3500 miles so it sat around alot. 2 weeks after I bought it I lost all top end power over 8 or 9k rpms or something like that, so I pulled the injectors and cleaned them out and it ran flawlessly the rest of the time I had it after that. It didnt throw a code and it had the exact same sypmtoms I am having now. Im hoping that will be the fix because after that Im afraid it is ECU related or it somehow jumped time.

I drained the tank and it looked clean as can be. Ive never swamped it aside from the CVT housing which is now snorkeled, but I guess even the smallest debris can have a drastic effect on the one and only injector. Ill report back with findings once I get home. I appreciate the thought you're putting into this.

 

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These bikes, well, the ATVs at least, don't have knock sensors or VVT or any of that; the timing map is fixed, non-adjustable. ECM can not do anything to timing.



To take a step back and "start from the top", so to speak- you've verified fuel system pressure. We know the EFI bikes don't care about snorkels like a carb'd bike would. Starting to kinda narrow down the culprits. I believe if you had any internal ECU issues, you'd get weird codes and drivability issues, if the bike ran at all, and I'm just not aware of many internal failures of these things, they tend to hold up pretty well, so I'm overlooking it.

If it's a power generation issue, and not a power delivery issue, clutches/belt/tires, that's all overlooked as well.

Dirty MAP/T sensor should theoretically throw a code, but not guaranteed. When's the last time you changed the spark plug? Cleaning the injector is perhaps the final thing I can think of. If your CPS were intermittent you should get a no spark or miss condition, not a bog exactly.

I have not changed the spark plug yet. I did pull it and it had very clearly been burning lean and it had spark, so I havent messed with it and especially ruled it out after looking at how clean the exhaust baffle was. the stainless was about the same color as the spark plug oddly enough. I was going to buy one last night and evidentially autoparts stores dont carry them? I specified the NGK part number and was told they couldnt even order them. The whole not throwing a code thing is what is throwing me off but like i said, neither did that 1000 so im crossing fingers and eyes thats what it is. Im leaving work now and headed home to start digging into it.

 

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Pulled the controller same result. I did put it In low and just kept on it and and finally it did hit then hit the limiter but took a long time. What are the compression test numbers supposed to be? I got a reading and about to do a leak down on it after I pull the front rack and plastic. I cant find the numbers anywhere for a 450. I cleaned the injector it pulsed as it should I’m not even sure that it was obstructed at all it didn’t seem to have any effect better or worse after.

 

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Well more updates. I didnt have time to do a leak down on it last night plan to do that today. I pulled the front plastics which I needed to for other reasons anyway, and found my radiator in embarrassing condition. I spent 30 min spraying it out Tuesday night and thought it was pretty clean. I still wanted to get to the back side and really clean it out tho and it was horrible. My starting point this afternoon is to check the MAP, leak down, and anything else I can come up with to try. I blew out the vent lines last night too the one to the tank had a good amount of sand/dry dirt in it by the check valve. Idk if it was enough to clog it up or not but worth noting.

 

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I don't know for certain, but something in my head is saying 150-180psi on compression numbers. I think it's probably "safe" to say anything under 100psi would be cause for concern, and anything over 140-ish is probably "normal", but I'll wait to hear someone confirm with shop manual numbers.

The old radiator hiding mud, no real shock there, but I can't see it contributing to your power generation issue without letting you know "limp mode" "overheat" etc....

Unless you know something we don't, I just can't see that new an engine having any compression or leak-down issues. I'm really curious as to what you discover is the issue

I looked for an hour in the shop manual (referenced from 2015 but figured for this purpose it would work) but could not find a spec for compression test, only leak down percentages. I could have sworn I saw it before and tried to even put the document in bluebeam to use the search function, but apparently the file format wouldnt support the search feature. Go figure. The numbers with the motor up to temp were 120 dry, 130 with a small squirt of oil.

 

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I don't know for certain, but something in my head is saying 150-180psi on compression numbers. I think it's probably "safe" to say anything under 100psi would be cause for concern, and anything over 140-ish is probably "normal", but I'll wait to hear someone confirm with shop manual numbers.

The old radiator hiding mud, no real shock there, but I can't see it contributing to your power generation issue without letting you know "limp mode" "overheat" etc....

Unless you know something we don't, I just can't see that new an engine having any compression or leak-down issues. I'm really curious as to what you discover is the issue
[/QUOTE

It has only gone into limp mode (overheating) two times. The first time it was 90 deg and I pulled an XMR 1000 that my buddy swamped his first ever ride about a mile back to the trucks. Alot of uphill pulling on the way back and had to stop twice as soon as the limp mode light came on. The second time the fan connector came off and the fan wasnt running. I found it odd though because it was 30 degrees that night. That was about 6 months ago though and it ran fine for months after that. I noticed the plug was loose immediately, plugged it back in, and let it cool before taking off again. It isnt using oil and the oil looks fresh also.

 

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I have a quick connect fitting on it now so I can pop a gauge on it quickly and in neutral revving it up to 7000 rpm it shows 51/52 psi. Would it matter that its in neutral instead of under a harder load driving it?

 

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No real update yet. I did a leak test last night and leakage was 6psi.

Bad plug. Bad gas. Broken secondary spring, or wrong one. Wrong key.

Drained tank, stock secondary spring since I changed the primary I put the stock back in, doesn’t have the different keys, first controller had these symptoms, new Bom controller same, and removed back to stock same.

 

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I know but a good chance I'll get an efi in the future so be good to know about it

Ill take a pic when I get home and this is probably a good time to ask this question as well since Ive been wondering. I made the quick disconnect with parts I had at home from pneumatic quick disconnect fittings. I figured if it leaked or gas caused it to go bad I would remove but so far it hasnt leaked a drop and to be safe whenever I pop the gauge on it I full the fuse for the fuel pump and depressurize. I've been busy this morning but now I have a little time for a better update.

Wednesday night I blew out the vent lines, cleaned the radiator very well, did the leak down and was good, did a compression test the day before (dont know what the number should be since that info is non existent but i think its good), fuel pressure had previously been tested twice on different days at 51/52 psi, cleaned out the injector had plenty of carb cleaner spraying in an x pattern, checked all connections for wiring and hoses, double checked air box and snorkels for obstructions, etc. Last night I took it down the road with the only changes from the night before being vent lines blown out and radiator that was super clogged cleaned out. The first run felt marginally better especially down low it seemed like it had more power taking off but still just lull'ed at 5500 and up. Even though if felt better down low, it wasnt so much better that I couldnt say it was all in my head. Pulled it back in and wrote down the settings Bom set the controller to and checked the plug and it was dry as usual. Taking a shot in the dark I adjusted the WOT and raised it 2, then lowered the transition to WOT down to 2 (i think). This time it felt alot more normal down low and still lull'd out at 5500 or so but seemed like from there it gradually increased alot more quickly to 6500 and in the mid to upper 40s than before. Took it back and pulled the plug and it was dry around the electrodes but the top thread had fuel/ carbon around it.

That is where I left off I didnt have time to keep going with it, but Im still lost.

 

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USED OEM Temperature Pressure Intake Sensor

canampartsguy.com

I'm the last guy to advocate "throwing money" at something, but that might be $20 well spent.....

Purchased 2nd day air, at this point Im ready to get it going right so I can ride. Thank you for all your help and suggestions.